Comments on this article
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observer
10-21-2002 6:19 am
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pace & class
I suppose an 8-2 drubbing of Southgate showed pace and craft... I presume Old Loughts 8 goals came from the defensive tactics they employed?
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Nick T
10-21-2002 9:28 am
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Duncan Woods
After seeing his performance at the Commenwealth Games it does not surprise me that he hasnt played a decent game since 1994.
Its a shame that when players make decent comments about the state of the game, in that the standard is declining, that they then have to spoil it by making out that it is everyone else to blame.
Shame on you Duncan you should know better. Hope Southgate have widened the clubhouse doors so you dont bang your head!!!
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David Vinson
10-21-2002 11:20 am
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Decent Game
I would like to clarify the comments published in the article. A decent game means a win. As you may know despite having the best facilities, best players, best coach and most amount of money we have failed to win many games since 1994.
Therefore I am hopeful that next year we can perhaps acheive a winning season in Division 2.
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Former Southgat fan
10-21-2002 12:27 pm
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David Vinson
David Vinson has failed abysmally since taking over at Southgate, he has got us relegated indoors and outdoors, and must take the blame accordingly. The only thing he has managed is to do, is brain-wash a couple of previously respected international with his brown nose tactics, and if he is so good why has he failed to translate this into anything respectful on the hockey pitch? He has created a team of pretty boys who have no heart, no spirit, and care more about the hair then they do about hockey. They struggle to muster a win in div 1! Such a huge club surely cannot accept this.
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Zoolander
10-21-2002 2:07 pm
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Big Club?
You mention that a club this big should be disappointed with such bad performances. How big is this club?
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johnv
10-22-2002 12:08 am
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vinsons coaching
vinnie should go now his training methods are dated all bunny hops and not enough stick and ball work
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Neil
10-22-2002 4:32 am
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Southgates plight.
I rate David vinson as a coach and its a shame he didn
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neil
10-22-2002 4:37 am
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Southgates plight!
I rate David Vinson as a coach however i feel that when he left Southgate and the club chose Neil Hawgood the club got greedy and spent an enormouse amount of money, they way they were spending it would appear that they were also running the finaces of the EHA??
Southgate have done a lot to put English hockey back a few years by their mercenary ways, they have now got what i think they deserve ...Nothing and relegation looms again.
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The Podger
10-22-2002 7:32 am
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Southgate
Southgate won't get relegated. Division one is too poor for that, despite teams like Barford bringing in 2 of India's Junior World Cup stars - Could be interesting!
David Vinson is a good coach, and Southgate's plight isn't his fault. You should look towards some of their clubs poaching tactics. The stories of what Southgate do (as in approaching other clubs players) has got round, everyone knows about it and people don't like it. Rightly so. I hear they've signed an Argentinian International now, to try to save them from their dilemma. Desperate measures!!!
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Beekeeper
10-22-2002 8:31 am
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Vinson is a good one on one coach which is why he is successful when faced with a highly talented team of internationals to coach.
But when he has to motivate a less naturally talented side into performing as a team, he is less able. The side get no input from the side of the pitch during the game.
The standard in div 1 is poor but Southgate will struggle because they will come up against very committed sides who play as teams. Southgate play as individuals. It will also take them a long time to adapt to the umpiring, which is a distance off prem standard.
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Andy
10-22-2002 9:06 am
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Poor standards
How are we judging the leagues....the standard of English hockey and the competition in the leagues is probably as high as it has ever been with the 1st division very competitive this season.
Yes the step up to premier is massive the league could easily be split into 2 with 5/6 sides Cannock, Surbiton, Reading, Loughborough, Guildford at the top they need more competition but the bottom half and the top half div 1 are very close together. Having played in both over the last 8 years and in the prem now I think the standard is far from poor.
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Supporter
10-22-2002 10:16 am
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Giles Cadman
I heard, from a colleague of mine, about members of the Southgate fraternity texting/ringing other club's players after the end of last season. Fair enough if the player shows an initial interest, but if they don't they should be left alone. This is only fair
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Middleman
10-22-2002 11:07 am
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Poaching
I know first hand of their tactics and it is on purely speculative basis hence why they are not the most popular of clubs, but then again why shouldnt they in the end if people are not happy/in it for the money why shouldnt they leave/be poached?
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Willy Waugh
10-23-2002 7:48 am
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Batty
David Vinson likes in in the (Duncan) Woods, if u know what I mean......
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Jon Peckett
10-25-2002 7:42 am
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DFV
DAVID IS A GREAT COACH AND WILL PULL THIS CLUB ROUND. THANKS FOR THE SESSION LAST NIGHT DAVID. IT WAS GREAT.
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john
10-26-2002 3:06 am
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jon peckett and duncan woods
ENGLAND CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE PLAYERS PLAYING IN DIV 1 .SOUTHGATE WERE HOPING THAT THEY WOULD BOUNCE STRAIGHT UP.THIS DOES NOT SEEM LIKELY AFTER THE START THEY HAVE MADE.I SUGGEST ANY PLAYER THAT WANTS TO GO TO THE OLYMPICS FINDS AN ALTERNATIVE CLUB IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE.AS FOR DAVE VINSONS COACHING HE HAS THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE DIVISION NO ONE ELSE HAS ENGLAND INTERBATIONALS.ITS TIME TO GO DAVID.
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james hemstock
10-27-2002 5:33 pm
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youth
the state of english hockey is definately progessing. its time for the youth of the country to start being excavated. Beeston although they are in the 1st division have one of the best youth set ups in the country. there under 16 team last year lost on flicks in the final of the HA cup. this season the 1sts have 4 players under 18 playing for them although they are young and have enthusiasm to burn these 4 teenage internationals are not out played and can only b good for the game as in 5 10 years these will be the new generation of stars. so why not introduce them to higher standards although it dusnt reap rewards straight away and beeston wont win promotion give them time and let them build for the future
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Peter
10-28-2002 3:33 pm
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youth
Agree with James Hemstock - I hear that Teddington are also promoting the cause of youth by playing two young England U16 players in their men's lst team setup - the experience they are gaining is invaluable for the future. Cannock also have a great youth policy
and seem to progress their youngsters very successfully giving them a chance where possible to play at the highest level. Rewards will be reaped in the future.
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The Podger
10-29-2002 2:39 am
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Youth has to be the way forward for the National Team too. England need to get rid of the likes of Ben Barnes, Duncan Woods, Andy Humphrey and even under-achievers like Manpreet Kochar and Brett Garrard. When are England going to get the clue that these players simply aren't good enough at the highest level and play the likes of Andy West & Ben Hawes...
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Fan
10-29-2002 2:59 am
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youth
I'm not sure what evidence is there that English Hockey is progressing. Number of people playing the game is about the same as it was 20 odd years ago, but the standard of club and international teams is comparatively lower. Look at the records, when was the last time an English club won the European Championship ... Slough back in 1980. When was the last time we won any medals at the Olympics ... 1988. So how can Peter and James claim English hockey is progressing? Reality is that the present system is producing mediocre players with limited technical ability and little flair.
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Adopted Brummie
10-29-2002 9:53 am
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standards
Speaking to players who played during the transition from regional to national league; the consensus seems to be that standards have not improved as a result of the creation of the national league. In my opinion the national league has been to the benefit of average 'journeymen' hockey players seeking to play at a higher standard. This is fair enough, yet too often players with skill are not allowed to 'play'. The reason why we are producing players with limited technical ability ('flair' is another issue) is that it is a lottery as to whether a player has access to a good coach.
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Richard
10-29-2002 10:34 am
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The current game may be lower than yesteryear but this only reflects years of under-investment in the correct structures in hockey. I think that a number of clubs have been very brave in their attitudes in bringing on youth players. This bodes well for the future and the likes of Beeston, Old Loughtonians & Teddington. Obviously these youngsters need some experienced players to bring them on.
It is these sorts of clubs that will be likely to compete against the clubs who currently rest of the top of the premier division rather than some of those who are there at the moment.
In relation to the England team set up: certain players will always be preferred by certain coaches. However, the management of England teams needs to pick players on their current performance as well as ability and potential. Granted, getting the right balance is hard, but this means that the coaches should not be dropping proven goal scorers or play makers just because they speak their minds.
Perhaps when the review of the structure of English hockey takes place again, they will see the correct way forward. This may mean culling some of the dead wood who are coaches in the regions, who ignore players with potential. Only then, may England progress enough to compete on an international level
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Andy
10-29-2002 11:27 am
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Fan
So we have gone through a barren patch yes but the league and standard of the youngsters is definitely getting better. The standard of hockey is far better than when I first started playing National League hockey in 1993. Youngsters like Andy West, Marting Jones, Ben Hawes, Barry Middleton etc etc are a cut above some of those from other eras. These guys have flair and technical ability in abundance.
We keep harking back to the 80's and it does us no good at all people seem to see doom and gloom all around them when really the future does not look too bad. Womens hockey is moving forward and the mens will to if there is a big enough shake up at the top. I dont believe the standard of our club teams is lower than 20 years ago and our flair and technical ability is definetley better along with fitness levels et al - sounds like you may be a little stuck in the past fan and would suggest watching live hockey a little more rather than the video of '88.
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Neil
10-29-2002 1:08 pm
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Teddington HC
IT is really good to see that people are aware that Teddington are bringing on the future of the game. What people do not often know is that we are the last survivors of the Original National league. We are in a sense a poor club who have struggled to stay with the elite, and we do give youth a chance as we have no money to pay out for our "elite" sportsmen who so often under acheive and play for more high profile clubs. Perhaps i am old school but i prefer loyalty above all else and i am sure clubs could see better development of players if they were to commit themselves to one club, even if they get relegated. The theme is at Teddington that we are a young club and are learning , trouble is every year we are still learning as the new creche arrives but we still survive. Danny Haydon, capt for 3 yrs, is a great young leader who was 16 when he played his first game and epitomises everything i have mentioned in this article, James wallis was a very loyal servant also until Surbiton`s cash register rang!!! To me James would have still played fot GB if he had stayed do you blame him for moving for cash????
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CharlieO
10-29-2002 6:57 pm
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Euro Medals
Well at least Duncan stirred some debate about English Hockey !!! If you read between all the lines I think you see that there are alot of very passionate people who want England to succeed. good on you. I particularly concur with the comments made by Neil about loyalty.
As for Europe I think that people forget that Reading and Cannock have been winning medals in Europe for the last 10 years. Did Reading not lose on strokes in the European Cup Final alst year ?! Wake up and smell the roses boys English clubs are winning medals in Europe and will do again this year. Let's hope Reading can "Bring home the gold" in 2003.
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.
10-30-2002 5:38 am
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?
I do agree with you about reading as i went out to see them but you have to look at reading and think well are half of these players going to do nething and still be playing in the next few years? they have a good base of players but they are getting old to be blunt! The women are starting to do it and the men need to ! They need to invest in youth...as theres no point putting ne more time in to players who are coming to the end of there day. If you where to look at the average age of men in the national league compared to women you would see a tremendous diffrence! As in top sides apart from the few exceptions it is difficult for the younger boys to break through to mens first teams. Women are investing in youth because of people like trisha herble...and then men need to, to.
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Sandridge
10-30-2002 8:05 am
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youth
Good on you Louts Teddington and Beeston - its the way to go!! But let's hope your youth talent doesn't get poached when the blinkers come off other Club's eyes and loyalty remains a factor.
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mcjock
10-30-2002 8:35 am
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athens '04
having watched england in the c/wealth games it wouldn't be a bad idea trying out some young players. so yes bring in these young english players but don't overlook young scottish players either. there are more than a handful of players in scotland that must be pushing for a place in the gb squad. if the selectors continue to pick the england team as gb, im pretty sure performances will stay the same, so please include players like kris kane, dave mitchell, graham moodie, niall stott and laurence docherty in the 2004 squad. if these guys are left out it would be an absolute travesty.
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Simon
10-30-2002 10:06 am
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Youth does need a chance. Yet any chance of youth breaking through is blighted by the short sighted policy of our national coaches sending all young players to just three clubs. Reading, Surbiton and Cannock.
Whilst there they sit on the bench and watch hockey. And then people are surprised when they struggle to break into the national sides. Stop telling people where to play and let them develop at their own clubs, without the threat of international exile if they don't follow the party line as laid down by a few national coaches - none of whom have ever themselves won anything of note.
We have some fantastic young players in this country - both men and women. But the girls play and the men have to watch the same tired old warhorses slog out low quality hockey while they await their weekly 20 minutes of top flight play.
The desire to create a league that purely serves the international set up has poisoned competitive hockey in the EHL. The 3 club league is a joke and an insult to the rest of the hockey community. Hamilton should resign and clear out the Spice legacy with him.
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hockey fan
10-30-2002 11:49 am
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Peter
Peter you mentioned that Teddington have two England Under 16 internationals in the first team setup. Well this is the first I have heard of it. Well if that is true what are their names and since when have they been at Teddington? Teddington will never get anywhere simply because they play the wrong tactics. It is so mind numbingly boring! The reason that no-one goes to watch the first team is not the fact that we dont have a pitch with a clubhouse etc. Its that the ones are so full of themselves! The only two descent people at Tedington are Nick Ripley and James Webster. Sorry to be so critical but its true. |teddington allways defend defend defend! Can they not be a bit more innovative??????????????? Well I have to say that Reading and cannock are finnally playing good hockey. Another enjoyable team to watch are hounslow and ealing in the second division. They can also play nice hockey! Indian Gym are also verry entertaining!
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Andy
10-30-2002 12:27 pm
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Youth
You look at Reading but do not mention the youngsters coming through there ranks. Have a look at the squad this year and you can see youth coming to the fore. Cannock, their youngsters dominate the team and squad. Teddington, Canterbury, Loughborough all are bringing on the youth (and by this I do not mean colts u16/u18) but also the 19-22 age group. And below the premier Old Loughts continue to develop a fantastic crop of players. Everything goes in cycles and I for one think we are going to be able to field a formidable national team in the next few years.
And as for a tremendous difference in the average ages of national league players for women and men I disagree or is it that the women just look a lot older???
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Andy
10-31-2002 3:25 am
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Hockey fan
I am sorry but that last line about Indian Gym playing very entertaining hockey has shown you out to be a fraud (and you call yourself a hockey fan!!!!!)...unless they have changed their whole squad, management and attitude after being relegated. Sorry your idea of entertainment is lost on me.
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Peter
10-31-2002 6:27 am
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hockey fan
When did you last watch a Teddington game? GK Gollan and Harper (both England U16) played the first match of the season against Cannock. And what do you mean about the team being full of themselves - and isn't Danny Haydon worth watching!
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Cat
10-31-2002 8:04 am
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Peter
Peter, your comments about youngsters Gollan and Webster (sic, think it's Webber actually) playing at Teddington are all well and good, though I think in fact the reason they are now at Bushy Park is that they both left Surbiton to get a game and not bench. This was understandable as Surbiton pursued their policy of blending experienced (often foreign) internationals with acquiring good young players (rather than being donated them). However, their departures were to Surbiton's loss as they are both promising.
My view is that I have seen standards in the National League dropping over the years too, though many clubs have been bolstered by classy imports. Witness the way EG resorted to their vets a couple of years back when they were in dire straits and this season have acquired a Premiership club's third team players to play for them. In direct comparison to English football, the fundamentals are there for improving standards, better quality pitches, professionalism, lottery funding etc., but clubs should not rely too heavily on foreign players at the expense of home grown talent. I also agree that there are only currently half a dozen quality sides in the Premier League, but I see no problem in that - it just needs the players from those clubs to up their level to make the grade at international level.
On the Duncan Woods issue, I was only surprised that wasn't some 'miraculous' English Rugby Union-like collusion to prevent them from being relegated last year a la the Rotherham fiasco. How Doncaster would have laughed!
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Matt Whiley
10-31-2002 3:46 pm
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Duncan Woods is rubbish, Southgate are rubbish and a bunch of sad gits. Good riddance from the Premier League. I hope they disappear to where they belong. This country needs to get rid of clubs like that.
The nation would be much better off if only the best foreign imports were allowed and that'll only happen when the EHL restricts foreigners. We should only have 2 players from outside UK per team.
Clubs like Doncaster, Cannock and Canterbury, who promote their youth and have strong family links within their structure should be the one to prosper. I hope they do
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Happy Man
11-01-2002 7:06 am
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Clubs
Are we trying to put clubs down, lets look at some facts.
Reading have palyed together for years , bring in new players one at a time youth and older, yes they are playing the best hockey.
Cannock are blending Youth and older players, and good luck to them, Surbiton have a very good coach and a very good blend of older and younger players, and they are developing as Cannock are. Haveing a go at clubs like Teddington with a very young squad and a new coach, they are trying to build with out loseing there place in the Lge,
Unlike Havent , Hounslow, Southgate, all teams that have been at the top and look now. Give some person credit for trying to build again, and yes you do have to be negiative some times to climb the ladder again.
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CB
11-01-2002 7:46 am
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re:restricting foreign players
I thought the EHL did have restrictions on the number of foreign players per team? Anyway, surley it would not be in the interests of a club to pick a team full of non-uk players? I think we've all lost sight of the most important aspect of hockey: that's getting lashed after a game.
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Lashed
11-01-2002 9:13 am
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Foreign players
Foreign players are perfectly capable of getting lashed after a game, but having National League games on Sundays does put a damper on that significant (but not most important) aspect of the game. The limit of two foreigners is abused by bringing in hoards of dual-nationals. How many South Africans at Old Louts now? London Irish has become London South African now, but there's big money involved in Premier Division Rugby with 10,000 spectators a game and TV rights to share.
Getting back to Duncan Woods' silly remark (especially given his team's situation), the top level club hockey has never been strong here. Hounslow used to win but never train together. Teams in the Premier Division are sometimes short of players. If there are only enough good players for 5 teams, why do we have 30-odd in the National League? At least there isn't much club v country dispute - there don't seem to be any internationals for England's men scheduled. Or are there?
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Andy
11-01-2002 11:02 am
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Sunday Games
I disagree with the keep Sunday free brigade, playing on a Sunday enables the rest of the club to come out and support the 1st Team if we all played on saturdays there would be very limited opportunity to see a better level of hockey and to show support for club.
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mopeth
11-04-2002 10:51 am
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duncan wood
going back to the original article and some of your comments - how refreshing to see that a quality player who has seen the game struggle through the last 10 years has an articulate opinion to offer. many of you who have slated him presumably are far superior hockey players? I believe he was injured and had been dropped yet still got selected for teh Manchester tournament . Surely if all our players had high standards such as he and wanted to see the game really taken seriously and run professionally hockey would be in a better state. I totally understand his views and moans and what more evidence do you all need than the financial shambles taht is the HA. I also don't think he is saying taht is is any better just disappointed - his loyalty to southgate when he could easily pick his club shows a strength of character and commitment that there is too little of in our game from players and coaches alike.
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JULIA T
11-04-2002 10:55 am
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Woods
Woods is not being arrogant here, merely stating facts about the game which disappoint it seems to me. How many internationals do we have both male and female who have good ideas and strong views - we should all listen and get people like him and other senior players to drive hockey into a better state.
easy to criticise a player who plays at ease at the top from your lap tops - who are you all?
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Andy
11-05-2002 3:08 am
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Julia T
Read the article again and then read between the lines, Duncan made some good points about the game but then spoilt it by pointing to his club and coach as the way forward. Those who know a bit of the background to Southgates successes have seen them poaching the youth from clubs around the country for years or enlist a large number of foreigners instead of building a youth programme for themselves, hence why we have disagreed.
And in response to your comment who am I, I play in the premier division, 1 above Southgate, and have been playing Nat League for over 10 years now what about you been watching mens hockey long??? thought not!
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andy
11-05-2002 12:29 pm
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ego
why get so uptight - i love the sport and actually think that anyone who can sustain fitness and quality to compete at the top level should be commended - you included. I might add that as 'Andy' it is hard to say and usually from my experience those who promote their own game and tell people that they deserve respect because of their achievements are not really the best players. Going back to the article, I did not think that Duncan Woods was claiming Southgate were better than anyone else - that would be crazy after relegation however I think he was championing his coach which is presumably why he stays there - goodness knows why, I have heard some things myself. the other point is that I know from experience that coaching is in a terrible state in this country, you can barely take a qualification and most coaches only know drills and skills. The 'HA' should be encouraging players into coaching to right all these wrongs in the game.
Finally, don't patronise me please about my knowledge of the game; everyone has a right to an opinion and whilst you have been playing hockey I have 20 years of watching experience which surely gives me the right to pass judgement. Too easy to criticise others isn't it. I don't know personally any of the people who have commented above nor Woods himself however if you all put your energies into trying to help the sport then I think hockey would be far better off
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Andy
11-06-2002 3:26 am
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ego
You posed the question who am I and I responded I am not trying to promote myself or my achievements just answering a query you raised, further more your earlier post suggested others did not have a right to an opinion if it included criticism, which is it?
20 years of watching the game is fair enough but it also means you have not been involved in the setup, it is easy to put a rosy glow on things when you do not know the club, coaches or players.
I love this sport and want it to improve and become stronger but I disagree with the fact that standards are declining as you may have read above, the standard is far higher now than 10 years ago with athletes and clubs far more professional in their approach to the game - its a shame certain clubs still look abroad or to poach youngsters rather than invest in them.
Re your last paragraph, it is always IF YOU ALL TRY TO HELP THE SPORT...rather than IF WE ALL HELP THE SPORT, everone looks to another to improve things - do something positive!!
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Giles Cadman
11-11-2002 11:09 am
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Thought I would set the record straight
You either love DFV or hate him, if you are naturally gifted with flair and talent you generally like him (Duncan Woods, John Shaw, Soma Singh, Sean Kerly, Richard Dodds, Steve Bachelor, etc etc) if you are a dedicated hard working English grafter then you probably will not.
For those of you who don't know, DFV works for the EHA/HEL/Performance unit thing, and is sub contracted to Southgate. In consultation with Mike Hamilton and comments made by Hamilton before the Junior World Cup, Southgate gave up the idea of trying to stay/compete in the Premier Division and agreed to fund and develop young players as part of our existing youth programme. Again for the record we have 5 paid coaches and over 230 under 18's as well as a 3A's coached by Martin Foxhall. John Shaw is Captain of the 2nd team and the 3 sides work in conjunction with each other giving a clear career path for the youth. James Duthie is our ladies coach and there are a number of other coaches involved with the ladies and girls programme.
On the poaching of players front, a list of people who were well known as unhappy and looking to move were contacted by me. If the above people have said different that is a matter for their own conscience.
They were David Mathews, Ben Hawes Richard Mantell, Michael Johnson, Andrew West and Dave Sellick. No one else! These people were targeted as people who have the quality and class not to finish an abysmal 6/7/8 in international tournaments. No one else was targeted except Kwon Browne who was brought to the country by us, funded by us and put through University by us.
I joined Southgate in 1989; we were a first team, which was a club within a club. A lot has happened and things continue to improve. We have had to re-invent ourselves and a number of mistakes have been made in our desire to grow the club, I am sure more will occur. There are a number of comments on this page that are valid and as someone responsible at the club they will be taken on board.
We made a conscious decision when DFV took over and we hoofed out the foreigners that we risked relegation, we have no desire to "bounce back" the side is too young. Our Argie turned up, paid his own flight and will show some "latin flair" to some of our young players.
Duncan made his comments as Duncan, not as Southgate and these should be taken in the sprit in which they were intended. When I first played in the National League in 89 every team played 5-3-2, the players now are fitter and technically better but 4-4-2 was never played, half court was regarded as treachery. The league is tougher and certainly more professional, but what good has it done our national side who have under achieved. Name one top 6 International team who plays anything other than 5-3-2 (4-4-3).
We all love our clubs, we want them to do well and we want our players to be selected for International Honours. In light of the comments I have a higher regard for the youngsters who have had the courage to join Southgate.
I will probably come in for some more flack having taken the time to write this. Our target is to finish 5th this year and to get promoted next year. We have the cash and facilities to buy success, we have chosen not to. Despite the rumours we have never paid a player to play. Callum Giles was perhaps the closest with us providing a Flat and a Car. We have found "real" jobs for players and provided transport and expenses. The only time we have ever set out just to win was the Indoor; we imported 7 players and won. We are humbled by current results and Division 1 is tougher than people realise.
Beware the sleeping giants
Giles Cadman
Underachieved Fat Goalkeeper
These comments are my own and do not necessarily represent those of the club.
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fan
11-11-2002 12:37 pm
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Mr Woods perhaps you sould go and watch Old Loughts and Loughborough and see how the right balance seems to have been struck with both young english talent and experienced foreign imports to guide and teach the youngsters. Things cant be that bad for english hockey when young players are making up such a large proportion of the team and a 15 year old being amongst the leaders in the scoring charts!
Look at the likes of Loughborough, their average age and where they consistently finish in the premiership and you cant fail to see that there is a wealth of young talent out there that just needs the opportunity and their respective league and national coaches patience to prove themselves.
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Supporter
11-15-2002 7:12 am
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Have you noticed that all of the decent English players that you targeted to join this year didn't actually join? What does that say?!
You'd have thought that if you had sorted your set-up out then at least one would have joined. Then again, maybe they're all wrong, and they just don't know what's best for them!! Or, maybe they want to have a good time as well as play hockey...
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Erik van der Huupen
11-15-2002 8:02 am
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Are Sothgate the next national team of England? Remarkable.....
Apoologies for my spelling and grammar. I have spent 60 minuten looking at the comments and it appears to me that there is turmoil amongst your League in England.
I am interested in the comment by Cadman that the Assocciatian actually asked Southgate to 'take the sword and fall in it!" (I think that is right) for the same of the Jonge England team at the WC last year. Absolutely very strange....
I can rememeber the team with Kerly, Dodds and friends and they were the bulk of the England team for a long time....I understand that Mr Vinsson was the trainer at that time for Southgate too...so can he only work with top players and I thought coaching was about changing the way people play and then develop....why was he in chanrge of young players?
From what I have studied in the artickels it appears that many players have left teams to join a releigated team from the top league...strange....
Mr Cadman, are u in denial about how you bring players to your Club....how far from your club do the jonge players live....who taugt them to play hockey....
It is great that Southgate have decided to risk the Club so that England can benefit....I hoppe that you have suces and I expect to see many players from the team of Southgate in the next Olympic Games 2004....
I actually am not a bet man, but I would not have Euro's on seeing any Southgate players at all....somebody mentioned Havant and Hounslow, who were famous once.....looks like you are the same....Bye Bye
(Sorry for my spelling!)
E v d H
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Fenlander till I die!
11-15-2002 8:22 am
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Young Peterborough Players
I am disgusted and surprised in the comments about how young players are developed at Southgate. Clearly you are trying now....but why still take developing and established key players?
How many English Hockey employees involved in the coaching?
How can they take key players from other EHL teams and risk those Clubs demise as competitors.....Peterborough Town have lost 3 Junior Internationals this season U16, U18 and U21...they are all home grown and were bloodied by them. (It would be unfair to name them)
One in particular is at University in Nottingham and is 10 minutes away from Div 1 rivals Beeston. the guys studies could well be affected due to training commitments in North London and ironically Beeston beat Southgate in the League recently.
I would be interested to know how his parents feel.....do Southgate have morals....and more importantly what are they trying to achieve....its a sad day when this happens and I am starting to feel that there should be some ruling, similar to the Soccer Academy's where Clubs cannot play players who live a radius of time and distance form their Clubs...maybe U21's could be the cut off. That way Clubs would ahve to develop and play youth as we are seeing in the Premier League with Teddington (rebuilt with Youth, play-offs to survive recently), St Albans (2 Leagues titles on the trot after being in the wilderness), Cannock (strong at 1's, 2's and 3's level with Youth), Canterbury (proven home developers). Loughborough are different , but promote the way Youth can play and be exciting.
In Div 1 we have seen Loughts and Beeston demonstrate the appeal of well organised coacing and youth players.
Its all about TRUST!
Maybe Sport England should reward these Clubs for doing this via the English Hockey.
Southgate....do you TRUST your own Youth Development Programme....don't feed off others'...its embarrassing!
Discuss......
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bob the builder
11-15-2002 8:25 am
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giles cadman article
its time for the knocking to stop! we as a hockey loving nation must give credit where it is due & stop getting @ those with much better morals than our own. my club have acted with integrity @ all times & does not deserve the ridicule aimed @ it by 99% of the country
the fact that dfv & the rest of the southgate management "gave up the idea of staying/competing in the premier division & agreed to fund & develop young players" was a true piece of self-sacrifice for the good of the game. it must have been no easy feat to come to that decision, & an even more difficult one to not even win a game until it was all over with 4 full internationals & 2 regional coaches in the side
to also disband the team of imports so painstakingly assesmbled & described by giles as "the best squad in the country" was again a courageous decision
i would also like to praise mike hamilton for playing his part in allowing the compassion of north london to shine through. if mike would be so kind as to now go & ask reading to stop beating the life out of all before them for the good of the game i'm sure we would all be real appreciative! it is never good for 1 side to dominate a league & they are making a mockery of ours by being too good. please mike, do your stuff for hockey again!
the tactical knowhow that david instills in his players is not to be sneared @ either by all you doubters. the fact that he can tell clubs are playing 5-3-2 when they dont even realise it is real vision, as even the german, spanish & dutch sides will never admit to such an aged formation. i'm glad my suspicions have now been realised. i just didnt have the courage to say
i hope the national team takes up giles's idea of playing 4-4-3, as we would then have 11 players on the pitch!...genius! no-one else has thought of that have they?
so stop knocking & get behind the red & black army. we are on our way back with the good of the game @ our heart, our morals intact & our vision of hockey in a league of its own
bob the builder
fat builder & southgate fan
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Giles Cadman
11-15-2002 8:41 am
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E v d H
Thank you for your response the content of which is noted, only time will tell.
Based on the comments on this site and some soul searching I have resigned as Chairman of Southgate Hockey Club.
Giles
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james
11-16-2002 2:37 am
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GILES CADMANi
i understand that danny emery was commuting from havant to train and play for you last season and this .this is probably 500 miles a week and is far to much for a promising young player and you tell us that vinson is a good coach.he poached emery when he was under 21 coach and fed him bad advice he will be burned out before he is 23
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Gabbo
11-16-2002 3:33 pm
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What an article....
Claire what a great article...shame it cant get this coverage in the papers.never been here before. But certainly some uncovering happening.
Young players should develop in an environment they are ahppy with. Someone mentioned...a radius from home idea. Should be explored.
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