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david
02-01-2002 1:57 pm
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Its fair that Ireland get back their rightful place.
Now I think India has to play US as originally decided
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Supporter
02-01-2002 2:10 pm
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About time some common senes prevailed. Rules have to be followed. FIH should stop politicaly motivated decisions and stick to the rule book from now on.
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G
02-01-2002 3:08 pm
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Now What?
Will there be a three way playoff (Lithuania, US and India) for the final World Cup spot or is Lithuania out for good?
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Pynchon
02-01-2002 3:55 pm
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incompetent official
Ireland advances at last. My sympathies to the Lithuanian players, who, through no fault of their own, stay home. What a disastrous decision by their officials not to show-up for the replay. I would like to see a further announcement from the FIH that the incompetent tournament official responsible for this fiasco--named in the above article so I need not repeat it here---be banned for life from doing anything more than handing out towels in the locker room.
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Ella
02-01-2002 4:37 pm
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To G
Lithuania is out for good. The one remaining berth goes to either the US or India, though I am not sure whether this will be determined by the originally suggested three game series, or their results at the Champions Challenge?!
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Joanne
02-01-2002 4:48 pm
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Slap in the face
The CAS decision is of course a slap in the face of the FIH. Congratulations to the Irish, who gambled and won. My sympathy for the Lithanians, who gambled and lost. Now it is up to the US and India to decide on the last remaining ticket. I hope the final questionable FIH decision which still stands, will be revised as well, and that the deciding games will be played on neutral territory.
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Ella
02-01-2002 5:29 pm
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That slap in the face might not be such a bad thing in this case.
As for the gambling bit, I don't see Lithuania lost gambling. They lost, and lost all my sympathies, by not turning up for the penalties re-take (which in the hockey rules book is a clear reason for disqualification), and even more so by disturbing and delaying the game for fifth place. The only sensible course of action would have been to re-take the penalty shootout and appeal in case of a defeat.
But I do see that it was the management who took a wrong decision, but it's the players suffering most, missing out on their chance to play in Perth. I feel for them.
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Kenoc
02-01-2002 9:50 pm
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Pynchon got it wrong when s/he said "I would like to see a further announcement from the FIH that the incompetent tournament official responsible for this fiasco--named in the above article so I need not repeat it here---be banned for life from doing anything more than handing out towels in the locker room."
The official named was the COMPETENT one and her original decision was upheld by the CAS. The incompetent one was the unnamed TO on the match who got it wrong despite the protests of the Irish captain and , I believe, at least one o the umpires.
Congrats to the CAS for getting it right.
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david
02-02-2002 12:50 am
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India and US have to play a three-match series as the organisers of the CC refused to increase the number of teams.
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david
02-02-2002 12:54 am
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India will now play a three-match series with US. CC organisers have refused to increase the number of teams and so the final berth will not be decided at Champions Challenge
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Ella
02-02-2002 4:04 am
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david
Your statement is not logical. South Africa refused to host Lithuania and Ireland, who are out of the picture now anyway. Both India and the US are Champions Challenge participants, so theoretically they could decide the final berth there, and it would be on neutral territory too.
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Rana Zulfiqar
02-02-2002 4:05 am
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Rich nations have right to do more
i do remmeber lot of decion in this sence in hockey,a good example was last year panasonic cup (i dont want to go back in the history) in Hamburg,where the umpire blow the whisle for german in the finale even the ball was lifted when the striker ricieved it and the against teams player was about to get injured ,that was so high,why dont the world remmeber that eu players also have lot of reasons to say no ,to play anywher, God knows ,,,,in 1971 ,in 1976,in last olympic ,jay stacy player of the year if you watch the semifinal video ,you will finde that he was teasing the other player,lot of other examples,lot of that hockey can never never go further with our past .....???
lot of this kinde of examples are there lot ,
spacialy again eastren,and other nation which are ecnomicly not so strong,
so lithuane sohould not be affended,they know that they won,but but but but ,they forgot the
the sun set in british empire and sun rise the british empire,
and aslo because they are ecnomicly not so strong ,though they are having white coloures
sorry Harry i had to write this comments,coz it is most of the time in hockey,which is being targeted,
my regards to hockey lovers
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david
02-02-2002 6:37 am
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It was earlier decided that US and India play three matches in India (Delhi)
Later, to include Lithuania the CC idea came up. Now with Lithuania out of it, I think both play as originally scheduled.
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Joanne
02-02-2002 10:24 am
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Ella, by gambling I meant that Lithuania gambled on a favorable decision by the CAS. I still think though that they should be invited to the WC after all. The Lith. players just don't deserve this....And why not at the same time expand the field for this one time to 18 teams (both US and India), so there will be no more hassles for anybody!
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Ella
02-02-2002 10:24 am
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david - I agree with you. Technically the FIH's decision to allocate the remaining WC berth at the CC has been invalidated by the CAS. Thus the earlier decision about the three match series is re-installed. I only meant to point out that this was NOT because South Africa refused to host a CC with more than 6 teams.
Personally, I think it wouldn't be such a bad idea to give away the Perth berth in Randburg, either based on overall final results or on the result of the US-India game, as I am in favor of deciding this on neutral territory.
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Rena
02-02-2002 10:32 am
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final spot
The series for the final place for the WC should be held on neutral territory or India following the CC, not during it. The best of three series (as it was originally decided) should be separate of the CC. India afterall did win the final playoff spot, and thus earn the home advantage.
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Ella
02-02-2002 10:57 am
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To david
Just wanted to bring your attention to this PFH article
[url]http://www.planetfieldhockey.com/PFH/Item-View-3565-0[/url]
that suggests Lithuania might be part of the qualification series?!
I am stunned - apparently the FIH wants to be dragged to the CAS again, because the US and India would undoubtedly do that, and righteously so.
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Shiv
02-02-2002 11:47 am
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What??
The FIH is considering a 3 way competition? If this is true, they must be out of their minds! Both India and the US would never accept this. Why not end this mess by giving all 3 countries a WC ticket? They have all proven to be among the top 16/18 countries in the world. I am sure everybody would agree.
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Ella
02-02-2002 12:47 pm
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Yes please, give us some more stuff to laugh about...
The FIH should admit India, the US, and Lithuania to the WC, so they can amuse us some more with a next round in this ridiculous affair when Australia refuses to host 18 nations!
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mr noproblems
02-02-2002 3:15 pm
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Fih
dont worry the world is full of corruption........ i know its pissing off but "life's a bi@tch".
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Sam
02-02-2002 5:33 pm
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Rana,
Ireland a rich hockey nation - some chance! Where does the British Empire come in? I gues US, India and Ireland were all former colonies but I don't quite see the connection with the CAS decision.
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jacphysio
02-02-2002 7:38 pm
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Finally, its over
At last this horrendous mess is over. The Irish have been vindicated as a team who attempt to play by the rules. The incompetence of the FIH and their politically driven disciplinary committee have been seen for just that and the pig-headed bullishness of the Lithuanian management have been shown that the rules count and must be adhered to.
The Lithuanian squad should now seek new management. They also should have had the courage to challenge their management at the time and at least turn up to the stroke competition.
This outcome was not erached because of status, wealth or world ranking. It was decided on because of the rules and the fact that they were broken. Maybe now other countries will decide to read the rule book and to follow the rule book and the decision of the Tournament Director.
For Ireland it is on the Perth, however they will unfortunately carry this stigma all the way to Australia. For Lithuania, time to learn by your mistakes and we'll just have to wait and see whether India or US book their place to the WC.
See you all in Perth
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Sandeep
02-02-2002 9:10 pm
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Sam and Rana
Sam I think Rana's point is that richer nations(as in GDP) have an advantage in these kinds of situations.
The point has been made before, the FIH is dominated by western Euro countries.
Whether it is true or not many asian hockey countries certainly feel that way and now maybe some eastern euro countries do too.
I suppose the same could be said of the IOC and the USA.
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BJ
02-03-2002 1:44 am
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Idea
I have a great idea! Why don't we set up a new competition for frustrated Asian and Eastern European countries. Then nobody is gonna bother you any more!
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Applebee's Army
02-04-2002 1:04 pm
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At least we know who we are playing ....
"Our legs will never tire,
our hearts will see us through!
Goals! Goals! Goals!
for the Red, White, and Blue!"
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India Hockey
02-04-2002 8:03 pm
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change of venue
I have received word that the venue for the best of three playoff for the final spot at the WC will be held in South Africa at the conclusion of the big womens challenge tournament. This is a big blow to India...we lose the home pitch which was promised and to play in South Africa against the Americans is a most bitter pill to swallow. This is most disadvantageous.
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BJ
02-05-2002 12:24 am
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Play off
I think playing in S.Africa is the correct thing to do. Why should one of these countries have the obvious, undeserved and unfair home advantage?
Finally an FIH decision which makes sense!
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david
02-05-2002 2:15 am
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Its not an unfair advantage. It is accepted even before the tournament that US should play the last team (at qualifiers) at their home.
Why should US get the advantage. Giving a chance for a play-off is already an advantage for us. Usually teams which fail to turn up lose their place. So it is predetermined and any change now is only cheating.
India Hockey
Where did you get this info? Is it confirmed that India and US are playing in SA?
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Here we go.....
02-05-2002 4:04 am
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Playing in South Africa is not exactly an advantage for the USA. Sept. 11th and not being able to get to France even though every single player on the US team voted to go, flights were rebooked a number of times only to be cancelled is
not exactly not showing up.
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Sam
02-05-2002 11:41 am
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If this is confirmed it's disappointing to say the least for India. The agreement was that the 7th team played a three match series against the USA but that team had home advantage.
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Observer
02-05-2002 11:49 am
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If the reported change of venue for the India/USA play-off is correct, we must assume that the FIH have learnt nothing from their involvement it the Ireland/Lithuania qualification debacle.
Notwithstanding the extrodinary events which led to the US absence from the tournament, and the reasonable concessions that were made, the tournament was run on the basis that the seventh placed team would play the USA in a three match series, at home, with the winner qualifying for the world cup.
I would certainly concede that, from the US perspective, playing in South Africa or India would make little difference but from the Indian perspective, losing the promised home advantage will have a serious impact on their qualification efforts.
The FIH ran the tournament, and all teams entered the tournament, on the basis of getting home advantage for the potential play-off against the US. The US agreed to this. For the FIH to again seek to change the rules and move the goalposts should, in the circumstances, come as no surprise. It should however raise serious questions as to the suitability of the current officers of the FIH to run world hockey.
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Vivienne
02-05-2002 1:02 pm
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Change of venue
If it is true, I think it is a very good decision by the FIH. The original decision to give home advantage to the 7th placed team was made hastely, on the spot, arbitrarily and only after the tournament had started. The FIH has now obviously corrected itself and has created a situation which should be fair to any objective follower of our beloved sport.
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usa
02-05-2002 2:28 pm
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why is the champions challenge in south africa. BECAUSE INDIA IS NOT SAFE AT THE MOMENT. You are asking the USA to go to India, where I believe some one tried to bomb the us parliment. Hello, we are not going to India.....Even other countries would not go if the champ. challenge was held there. Its only a game. Keep everyone safe!
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Sam
02-05-2002 4:46 pm
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The English cricket team has just spent many weeks in India - safely. The world is a dangerous place, including South Africa.
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Ella
02-06-2002 8:45 am
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The important point though is that all nations at the WCQ agreed to this arrangement under the condition that the qualifying series be played by the seventh placed team AT THEIR HOME.
No matter whether these terms were fair or unfair in the first place, they cannot be redefined by FIH as they see fit along the way - they're only laying the foundation for their next CAS appearance.
So far it has only been confirmed that the FIH has asked the Indian Federation to consider the proposal to complete the series in Randburg following the CC, which is perfectly legitimate I think. The Indian Federation can always refuse.
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Scholsie
02-06-2002 5:44 pm
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The 2 messages above cover the issue. India should refuse to accept the FIH proposal and the FIH should stand over their decision to allow India host the playoff. As Sam points out above the English cricket team have just conducted an extended tour of India safely and furthermore for the benefit of USA the bombing of the parlaiment relates to a localised feud between India and Kashmiri militants about the control of the Kashmir border.
Whilst everyone in world hockey is sympathetic to the position that the US found themselves in post Sept 11, and fully supportive of the decision to give them a chance to qualify as their world ranking dictates, it is not asking too much for the US to attend in Delhi for the series.
As someone who attended some of the qualifying tournament it will be a great loss to the World Cup if India don't qualify to participate as they were a much better team than their 7th place suggests and contributed enormously to the game of the tournament against England in the pools losing eventually 2-1.
Here's hoping it is all resolved amicably and that people can get back to discussing playing issues.
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x36
