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England Fan
09-03-2005 9:44 pm
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Shocking....
OK: the tournament for England is over so let's evaluate their performance.
Drew against Belgium: not good enough.
Lost to Scotland: shocking, but enough's been written about that!!
Lost to Germany (1-0): acceptable, I don't think many people can fairly expect England to beat ze Germans.
Won against Poland: acceptable, but this is also a team that got hammered 7-3 against Wales so certainly nothing to get too excited about.
Lost to France: unacceptable. Yes France are improving, but England SHOULD be improving at a faster rate since they have much better resources.
Tournament altogether: UNACCEPTABLE!!!!! The reason for this is Leeboy - he has had PLENTY of time to mould this team into his own & it is not a pretty sight. England need a coach who knows how to attck is does not encourage his players to play so negatively. England simply never look like scoring unless they get a short corner.
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interested spectator
09-04-2005 3:49 am
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Tindalls miss
Not surprised that young James missed.Brett Garrard has spent the summer recruiting various English players to Surbiton for this season .The English captain says you dont want to miss out on the commonwealth games and it would be better for as many as possible to play for the same club.This may be true but when a player only ever played for one club and loves that club Brett should leave well alone .His job is English captain not Surbitons recruitment officer.
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Lee Out
09-04-2005 5:46 am
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Something has to change and someone has to be responsible. We can't go on with being charitable to our coaches. This is the worst performance in living memory and the people responsible for our game have to act.
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England Follower
09-04-2005 10:38 am
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In Lee's Defence
It's all well and good criticising Jason Lee but has he been given the backing from the governing body. He's good reasonable coaching team but if funding isnt there to free up the players etc how can we compete against other big Nations?
Also why do we not bring in a Dutch, South African or Aussie coach for example? Have we done this before and performed better or are we just not picking the right people for the job?
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RJF
09-05-2005 4:21 am
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Lee's Defence!
I'm afraid there can be no defence for Jason. He got away with the GB performances in Athens by claiming he did not have enough time to prepare. This time he got the players he wanted, played the tactics he wanted and got as much preparation as most of the other teams. That England were found wanting in almost every respect must be laid at his door.
I am fed up of hearing and reading that this is a young team, they are not when compared to almost all of the other teams involved. Yes the Poles are getting old and this Dutch team contains more old heads than us, but this England team is little different in profile from most other nations. What they are is inexperienced, Marsden at 25 has a dozen caps, most Germans or Dutchmen of that age have would have well in excess of 100. We either change players too often or hang on to marginal ones for to long, either way we seem incapable of selecting the right balance.
Too many of this squad were found out in their basic skills time and time again, too often we lacked precision in both passing and control. Players like poor Tindall were cruelly exposed when confronted with international class defenders, Clarke has the pace but not the cutting edge to really hurt teams and the finishing of the likes of Moore and Gouldie was brought into stark relief by the Germans in the bronze medal game.
I watched this team scrape a draw with the Dutch at the Rabo tournament, it was not a good night for the Dutch who shaded the game overall with a good second half performance, but failed to nail it down when they turned up the tempo as we hung on well for the draw. From there they have wobbled their way to a silver medal at the Europeans and we to defeat by the Scots and the French, by way of defeat to the worst Indian team ever seen.
I am not sure what Jason's record in all international matches is, but his record against almost any team in major tournaments is lamentable. I'm not sure that a coach with so little experience would have got the main job in any other team in the world's top 10, with of course the exception of the Indian's who would appear to have more problems than even we do!
Jason has now been to three major tournament's as head coach. The Olympic Qualifier in Madrid where we scraped through in the final games having played very poorly, Athens about which enough has been said and now these Europeans. It is not a pretty record and one that needs to be looked at very objectively. If he were the coach of almost any other nation in the top flight such a record would see him shown the door, is he really that good that we should keep on giving him another chance?
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Jock McJock
09-05-2005 5:25 am
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At least you stayed in the division!! Smile!
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stupid
09-05-2005 5:28 am
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CALL ME STUPID BUT...
ROME WASN'T BUILT IN A DAY
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Follower
09-05-2005 5:52 am
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"Coach Jason Lee will hope any progress his group have made does not come to a halt once they rejoin their clubs for the National League.
"Their local environment is key," said Lee. "Last October I couldn't get them to train at international level for five minutes: they are better now, but there is a long way to go.""
Any progress??!! What is Jason Lee talking about? Players that have not been in the England programme do better than those in it. Barry Middleton sparkled until Lee got his hands on him. Ben Hawes has improved no end playing in Holland and his progress looks to have been halted by Lee's style.
Danny Hall and Mark Pearn, to name a few, played their worst hockey under Lee and are now doing much better in their own clubs. Hall was so sharp and scored so many goals last year. Martin Jones was one of our brightest prospects until Lee took charge of the team and he's hardly been seen since.
I have high hopes for Surbiton this year but have a worry that with so many of Lee's players, they might play like England. Cannock and Reading will be rubbing their hands together!!
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Bloke
09-05-2005 6:01 am
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Dancer
He was much better, and proved so by winning gold!!
Our small mindedness pushed him away, maybe next time we will give a world class coach, world class support.
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England & GB Supporter
09-05-2005 6:57 am
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Sack the Management
If the present management team of coaches (including the team manager) were in charge of our a football club they would be sacked.
If the present management team of coaches (including the team manager) were in charge of our a International football team they would be sacked.
Come on England hockey do something before it's to late, lets get the right management team and coaches into place before the World Cup Qualifiers and then we can start getting the GB team ready for the Olympic Qualifiers for 2008.
At this rate we will not have a England team in the World Cup and a GB team in the 2012 Olympics, that's if the present management team of coaches stay!!!!!!!!!!!
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In Lee's Defence?
09-05-2005 8:31 am
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Your havin a laff!
You cannot blame funding for this performance. But what I can say is that normally I am sick of people always negatively critising the squad and the management in England, it seems to be a tradition.
However after this final standing I agree quite rightly that something must change within the management. From what I have heard, some players who are in the set up cannot believe that Leeboy has selected some of the players he has. That's great confidence within the squad, the management must be completely off if they cannot assemble a squad good enough to even gain respect off fellow squad members.
Also, what is goin on with the psychology and motivation given to the players. There were some fantastic players in this squad and what amazes me is that they perform completely different for their clubs. They do not seem to be given the freedom to express their talent which they show in the National League and are usually a joy to watch in England.
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Fed up
09-05-2005 12:17 pm
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Freedom of expression
Same old same old .... oh yes all these marvellous players play so much more freely for their clubs when attackers only come up against hopeless defenders, and defenders only come up against hopeless attackers, goalies face corners from hopeless corner strikers and hopeless corner strikers only have hopless goalies to beat!!
This is not down to Lee and let me give you some examples:
1) Jonty Clarke, causes fear and dread with Reading, but could not beat even the Polish defenders in Leipzig and found his only dodge too easily read
2) Goudie, Kirkham, West etc run with the ball and beat defenders in the league but were easily dispossessed in leipzig
3) Tindall was miles off the pace in thought and deed
4) Daly's corners - lethal in the Premier Div, not so lethal in leipzig
These are simple failings that have nothing to do with tactics or positioning. when you have a national league which offers international players only two or three chances a year to come up against other internationals nobody is ever going to improve.
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jimbob
09-05-2005 2:14 pm
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national league
English players "shine" and are "usually a joy to watch" because the standard of the National League is poor with only 3 or 4 sides who give each other any competition. The top English players therefore naturally stand out in the club environment given the mediocre opposition.
If you look at last season, how is the national team meant to be as good as everyone thinks it should be when you are hammering double figures past the like of St Albans and trying to play good hockey on Firebrands sand base. No disrespect to these clubs as they got in to the league as a result of the league structure which is fundamentally wrong.
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optomist
09-06-2005 3:27 am
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England lose on Penalties / National League Set Up
I am not the biggest fan of England hockey, but having read the many comments regarding the structure of the national league am i missing something here?
The top division for the coming season has been reduced in size, and has a mid season gap of several months to allow international preperations. Of the top 8 finishers last year, who avoided the playoffs all were competetive ie places 5 to 8 all took points off teams placed 1 to 4.
You could argue that the likes of cannock and reading were without their England players for long periods of time, yet these are then the same players that you hammer for their England performances! So you can't argue that they were missed.
If Surbiton are attracting the top English players hopefully this will serve to increase the overall league standard, in conjunction with the reduction in the league size.
There seems to be alot of support for forwards from the lower divisions, and yet when Tindall, with a National League goalscoring record that speaks for himself, got his Engand chance, he failed to deliver in competetive matches. This must therefore support an argument for any young players with England aspirations testing themselves in the top division.
If the players are good enough, and committed enough then they will make that sacrifice in terms of travelling, and leaving the environment of their friendly home club.
In what other sport i.e Rugby , Football, would anyone argue that a 1st or 2nd Division player should stay out of the top league, and yet justify regular England selection.
I believe things are changing. Many of the Divisions, Midlands and East for example have made open, advertised, selections for new, young regional coaches this year, hopefully bringing new ideas and freshness to Regional Hockey. And believe you me there are alot of talented and keen 14 to 21 age group players out there. What must be done is to hold onto as many of these as possible, by a training and selection process that does not so severely limit the pool of players that progress to England consideration.
Get back a structured academy system where more of these talented players can be retained in the sport, and progressively coached to increase the overall standard. It might be a few years hence, but with a change in the coaching structure at these age groups, combined with the changes being made to the top league, hopefully in 4 years or so we might be back at the standard we all hope for.
I quite agree, with comments about changes needed to the coaching personnel at the top. But I am hopefull that in the years to come the potential is there to see a massive improvement in our results, through the coaches and players set to come through.
There are coaches in particular who will be judged by the standard that they deliver, and not through resting on the laurels of their coaching careers. If there is one thing to be gained from our International performances over the last few years it could be that at least the next generation of coaches won't be able to live off the reputation of former playing glories.
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Lought5
09-06-2005 3:30 am
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National League
"standard of the national league so poor", perhaps watch how you phrase that JimBob, if the standard is so poor wthen why do we copntinually get medals in the european club competitions?
LeeBoy has assembled a group of youngsters (look at the average age!) that HE wants to work with and thinks can do well over the next couple of years in international competition. As 'stupid' said 'Rome wasnt built in a day!'
I think the main point may have been over looked here. The youngsters/players he has in his squad at the moment (bar 1or2 'interesting' selections) were the best/most promising players in the league last year available for selection. Everyone will have their opinions on this, and yes their will be crass&offensive comments made about players people thought should not be ther.
U try sprinting after Mat Daly/Jonty. U run around after Ratty/Jerome in training. U watch Mantell pick 50yard passes time after time just when you think your press is looking good. If player cam was ever on Steaders, watch the gingerman Scholes/Begcamp ability to always find the right pass and make space for himself.U watch Ebsworth make 3match winning saves as some how your side lose 1-0 after being all over them. You run around after Glenda/Westy&match their work rate. You stand in your goal when Daly has taken the ball on the Half Way line, won a corner himself&then fires one past your ear.
Don't really need to say anything about Baz, who says Northerners don't have skill!
When you've done all this, then you can get on your soap box, slag the players off&generally be totally negative about the game we play&love.
Most that have done these things 'might' be of the opinion that this set of youngsters (the best available for selection, just about) do have promise. There's always going to be differences of opinions over certain players, thats the beauty of having your OWN opinion though, we're all different, lets jsu make our comments in a CONSTRUCTIVE way.
Give Lee Boy time, the results will come as this young group gels& gains experience. Come on, our best player is only 21 !!! How old is de Nooier !!?? (sp)
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Lought56
09-06-2005 11:03 am
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You're right these guys are the best we have apart from one. Tindall was never going to be a success because he has not played at the top level. Let's face it we're pretty useless, but hopefully the guys have fun playing.
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b13
09-07-2005 3:14 am
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england
am a neutral but have been involved in national league in eng for years .... also have watched eng and gb play over the years ...seems like lee has a sytem that he feels will work and is trying to adapt his players to play it ..would it not be better to find a system that suits the personnel of the team and plays to the strengths of the stars ie middleton
hawes daly mantell etc ..use the best skills of the players rather than curb these skills by playing the players in a style that is not suited to them.....
just some thoughts ...use them ...dont use them !!!!!!!!!
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Lought5
09-07-2005 3:29 am
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Tindall
Unfortunately can't comment about 'the slug' as never played against him outdoor. If i'm honest though all i've heard is good things about his goal scoring ability, he seems to have the goal scorers instinct. Never saw Kerly at his best but i believe he was in the same mould as a player (as was a Mr Bobby Crutchley),would have people knocking his hockey ability but get him in the 'D' and he was awesome!
Plus with Thommo working with him him i'm sure his outfield abitilties will continue to improve.
If he doesnt make the grade, who else is there out there who is a Goal Scoring Centre Forward? Someone in the same mould as Kerly, Crutchley, Thommo(true he played on the left but still scored 20plus goals a season). Who was the PREMIER leagues top open play goal scorer last year? Was it Danny Hall? He's retired now (i think). Pearn, retired? 'pie man' Matthews? Steadman?
Cheeseman will create loads&make defenders look very stupid but never weigh in with 20 open play goals a season. Daly& Clarke the same.
Jones....Ahhh the angry Jonah,scores open play goals for fun,guessing he was injured the Europeans. Looked a bit rusty last sunday but would still much rather have him on my side than play against him.
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Leaguer
09-07-2005 10:42 am
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When the Prem1 takes a few months off what happens to the non-internationals?
Will they be allowed to play 2s? That's unfair on the 2s and everyone below.
Will they be left to get cold? That's unfair on the league.
Can't we just do like cricket and rugby and carry on without the internationals?
It may lower the standard of the league but it'd aid in development of up-coming players.
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jose
09-07-2005 12:04 pm
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lought5
Wasn't Watts near the top for open play goals?
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Lought5
09-08-2005 3:16 am
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Super League
In response to leaguers question about the post Xmas break, they'll be the same indoor season then (&don't quote me on this) i think there's going to be another 'super cup' like we did in 2000 before the Sydney Olympics. A league within a league with no relegation, just the chance to play some competitive matches.
My personal preference would be to extend the indoor season by a further month& then compete in some sort of super cup. But then i'm a big BIG fan of indoor hockey, hey if it works for the germans, why can't it work for us!
Forgot about Mr Watts, is he really a centre forward? See him more as a Westy sort of player, setting things up? If he is being groomed as a classic centre forward i apologise, good luck to the fella though, bags of talent!
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Leaguer
09-08-2005 8:52 am
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Lought5 - i hereby appoint you head of the HA. You seem to talk a fair bit of sense.
Why the hell dont we play international indoors? It is the best way to improve individual skills. We have some great indoor players and already there's a massive buzz about our domestic indoors - so why not internationals? Be cynical and do it purely to make money if you want, it'd bring the crowds in!
I'm glad i'm not losing my 2s place to a Prem1 player though, thanks for clearing that up!
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Mr X
09-08-2005 10:50 am
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I have always said england are not in top 10, but watching the U21 in rotterdam and the seniors in amsterdam,European championships, I would say they are not in the top 15. All the other nations are improving so much that they are leaving england way behind. If players like tindall are playing international hockey with others so called premier clubs players i am sure all of them will take england to the graveyard.The whole system is rubish .Lets get behind all the asian boys who are still in hockey and work on them so we can get this nation back to the top. What i mean is lets give them a fair chance, you all know this has never happend and will never happen.Infact the whole set up, top clubs , coaches ect dont wont to know about asian talent. CLEAN THE WHOLE ACT.
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Bloke
09-08-2005 3:14 pm
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Asians
Asians have been given their chances, but the modern game is too physical, Soma Singh succeeded but he was 6ft+ Yes the talent is there but the game does not suit the style, otherwise india would be number 1, pakistan are picking players with more physical presence.
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re:bloke.
09-09-2005 5:10 am
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What a load of rollocks!
1. Asians have not been given their chance, thats why there is so much animosity between them and others. Some amazing asian talent has been overlooked over the last 30 years. FACT!
2. I dont know where you live but most 2nd generation asians who play hockey in this country (i.e punjabi's) are 6ft+ nowadays.
3. England pick teams with physical presence, not Pakistan. The pakistani's are the full package at the moment, probably the best in the world, so dont even suggest that "the game does not suit their style"!
4.In the recent junior world cup, the indians and pakistanis were at least the same size as their european and australasian counterparts.
Oh yeah, and try telling the likes of Adam Dixon and Harry Jawanda that their too small to be playing the modern game!!
Honestly, this is the problem. People who DO NOT want to give asians a chance!!
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stuck record
09-09-2005 9:37 am
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oh good here we go again with the old Asian players debate.
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Reality
09-09-2005 10:43 am
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This Asian debate is unbelievable. There are no Asians who are good enough to be in the England side at the moment. In the past Soma Singh, Kali Takher have been good enough and earned over 100 caps for their country. Jas Chana was good enough but didn't train and got dropped on his fitness the same with Jag Soor. Amajit Degun is the one Asian player who I think was unlucky and should have got more caos. Other than that I think Asian players have been selected on their merits. There are Asian players around at the moment that can be good enough. There is a player at Old Loughts who is still U21 who should be given his chance if he keeps fit. Harry Jawanda needs to get fit again and be a regular at Cannock then he can push for a place in the England team. Apart from those 2 I don't think there is anyone else. Hanspal couldn't cut the mustard at Teddington and went back to play lower leagues.
The probelm is not Asians not being given a chance but the lack of either talent or more importantly fitness. Singh and Takher had this combination and became successful. Chana and Soor didn't. The 2 guys mentoned above have a chance but they need to be groomed and not told too early in thier careers that they are brilliant. They have the POTENTIAL to be but they are not at the moment, and their friends and family should not look at them through rose tinted glasses.
I think that should be the end of the Asian debate!
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bloke
09-09-2005 11:26 am
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utter rubbish
I cannot be bothered to argue, asians have been given a chance. They have not taken it.
Fitness and commitment are also significant issues. I am a fan of asian players. But I do not believe that the players have given themselves the best chance.
The other way to look at it, is that there is less than 3% of the population as asian, 50% women so 1.5 so 3 players out of 200!!, therefore since 88, sherwani, singh and kulbir would be the correct percentage, I think more asians than that have played so what are you complaining about!!!
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Ben
09-09-2005 11:28 am
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Great Asian Debate
re Bloke, you are talking out of your behind.
Wake up to reality and see that it is Asians holding Asians back but its so easy to blame others you wont do anything about it.
As in life the race card is the easiest to play!! Your arrogance is obnoxious
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jose
09-09-2005 2:40 pm
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re;bloke
re your fourth point, wasn't that because some of the Indians were actually overage?
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European Spectators
09-10-2005 2:30 am
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Pick anyone for all we care, because they couldn't have performed any worse than the current arrogant english squad who embarressed the whole hockey nation at the europeans.
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Bloke
09-10-2005 8:36 am
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Ben
statistical facts can't be from my behind!
The overwhelming point asian or not is the best players are not picked, yes men who can commit 100% of their time, get picked.
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England Fan
09-10-2005 5:33 pm
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Asian Debate
Maybe it's not such a bad idea for Planetfieldhockey to be shutting down....at least then we won't have to hear about this RIDICULOUS argument!!!!
THERE JUST AREN'T ANY GOOD ASIAN HOCKEY PLAYERS IN ENGLAND - END OF CONVERSATION!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ben
09-11-2005 11:09 am
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Bloke
You dont quote statistics just opinion - and it is an opinion blinded by race, religion and colour.
Leeboy or whoever should pick the best, no asian player at the moment is good enough FACT!!!
Get over it, yourself and take your trash off this website!!
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Lought5
09-12-2005 3:58 am
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23postings
Not bad, a link on planet field hockey getting 23postings about an England team before this important (yet oh so boring) debate raised its ugly&predictable head again.
Warren De Souza WILL get his chance to play for Englnad over the next 4/5 years. He is by no means the finished article yet. But his fitness&speed over 5metres are up there with the best.
He has come back this year with a far more mature, ready for business attitude& i'm hopeful that that stupid inside drag&stick block of his will never be seen again.
The arguement about Asians not being physically there is an interesting one considering arguably the best player of all time 'Shabaz' never lifted a weight in his life yet was streaks ahead when it came to strength on the ball& his electrifying pace enough to see off anyone. Just wish i couldve had a chance to see the master at work!
I bring back the same point i bring up every time this chat arises. Make the summer Indian/Pakistani tournaments big again, bring them back witha a bang. Sod this plum tournament i'm playing in at the weekend i want to go& pick my wits against the Asain players of yesteryear.
These tournaments were the breeding ground of soooo many youngsters (many of whom now playing international hockey) of every colour/race/class/ability....
Once we've harnesed these skills then we can (have them coached out of us at Junior Int Camps!) learn the tactical aspects in our mid-late teens. Hey Presto the all round hockey player!
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bj
09-12-2005 7:07 am
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This is the first time I've visited the site. Is there some reason why everyone uses nicknames rather than their own name?
PS I've used a nickname too until I see what people say in response - there may be some overwhelming reason why people don't to be personally associated with their comments, which so far has eluded me.
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Representative view
09-12-2005 9:36 am
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I think i speak for all english hockey fans (no matter what their origins) when i say i'd love to see some Asian style flair in the England team, or even Spanish or South American flair. Just some flair, really, dont care what colour the player is. Just produce and field some flair players please, not just flair, but substance too, and a good temprement.
Dont say we have them already playing for Barford / Indian Gym.. let's be realistic please. The present generation of hockey talent in this country is behind that of others, who are developing at a rate ever distancing itself from our own. Our leagues aren't actually that good, and thus neither are our players - although there is potential to make a great improvement.
I wouldnt care if there wasnt a single white face in the England squad - fielding the best squad available is what is important.
Hopefully the likes of Harry Jarwanda will be there in the near future.
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Billy
09-12-2005 8:28 pm
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Bob
Discacfull efffort by the poms betta luck next time . ha ha
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Reading Player
09-13-2005 11:16 am
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Bloke
You really ought to put "your brain into gear" before you post cr#p on this site.
The best player currently playing in English hockey national league happens to be K Browne and is the smallest player in national league hockey and he is most certainly not european.
I agree with the postings that Asians, Africans and or Eskimo's shouldn't be brought into the current english squad unless they have proven ability or great potential.
But one thing is for sure, there are many better players out there who would have performed at the Europeans rather than the squad of opinionated and arrogant bunch Jason Lee selected.
I agree with another posting on this site who states that we are coached the skills and vision by our club coaches only to turn up for international duty because we have this ability, and what do they do. They coach it out of us.
Give me the england coaches job and I will give you a winning team as I believe in selecting those with-: FLARE - PASSION - SKILL - GUTS - VISION - coupled together with fitness and I promise not to coach these skills out of them, but nurture and cherish them.
I will also set any game plan arround the players capabilities and not spend months trying to get players playing to systems that they don't either understand or suits their playing styles. This will give more training time for the things the players enjoy doing and that is to improve on the areas which require additional practise. Ultimately making them even better players.
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EHL-Director
09-14-2005 1:28 am
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Reading Player
Just the boke we have been looking for. You've got the job subject to confirming that you will be subservient and grovel at all times to the self appointed 1988 club members.
Have you got a mate who can take on the performance directors job, and by the way, absolutely no experience required. However the pre-requisites of being self opinionated and boring are a must.
The pay for both positions is well above the average and fortunately is not related to ones performance. (otherwise the current incumbents would have to pay us)
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Lought5
09-14-2005 3:48 am
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Reading Player
Big chat! Lots of promises there, not alot to back it up. Do love a bit of arrogance, one major problem here though.....
To quote you "there are many better players out there who wouldve performed at the europeans" Who exactly? Definitely not arguing the fact there are very talented players still playing in the premiership, to my knowledge they have all either retired,had their chance¬ taken it or play the ultimate Barry Big Bo***ks card of "i'm only playing in olympics". Nice work if you can get it......
SO ON TO THE NEXT DEBATE
Who would you have in your 'hockey fantasy league xl' & just like the football i want to hear your choice of coach to!
All players must be English&playing in the Premier league this season. Long term injured players are allowed.
Coach J Halls
xmas tree formation
GK Mason (guessin he still playing league hockey)
RB Garrard
CB R.Mantell
CB T. Bertram
LB Hawes
RM Cheeseman
CM M.Johnson
LM Middleton
Support Striker West (rotate with Cheeseman)
Support Striker Steadman (trustme on this one, give the ginger prince time,the boy is class)
CF Danny Hall
Bench: Daly, Clarke, Pearn, Goudie, Ebsworth
I know Cheesy isnt in the prem league this year but the whole point of the this was to get the best possible English team out. To my knwledge 4 players just retired after Olympics. Don't know about pearn.
Struggling for an internationally proven corner specialis, but hey, thats England!
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Supporter
09-14-2005 9:45 am
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team
Best team in England
GK - Ebsworth
RH - Ben Hawes
CB - Bertram
CB - Ramsden
LH - Mantell
IR- Middleton
CH - West
IL - Kirkham
FWD - Jones
FWD - Daly
FWD - Steadman
Bench: Tindall, Clarke, Pearn, Cordon, Fair
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Lought5
09-14-2005 11:14 am
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Supporter
You are either Jason Lee in disguise (which u cant be as you don't have glenda at CH) or a very level headed informed chap! Nice to see someone come on the forum, express their opinions& leave it at that, no cussing, no slander, very refreshing!
I disagree with a couple of choices, thats life!
Who would you have flicking, Rambo or Mantell?
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a team
09-14-2005 1:09 pm
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gk - ebsworth
rh- hawes
cb- r mantell
cb- ramsden
lh- wilson
rm- middleton
cm- kirkham
lm- west
rw-daly
cf-s mantell
lw -mathews (probably unpopular choice but he is the only man who can score corners consistently at the highest level, which is what would win us a lot more games)
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Esquire
09-14-2005 8:42 pm
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england?
gk: n taylor
fbs: hawes, r mantell
rh: west
ch: johnson
lh: wilson
ir: middleton
il: m taylor
wingers: 2 of clarke, daly, jones
cf: hall
lought5, ur loyalty to cheesman is admirable, but i dont think hes a starting inside right yet, not quite got the brain for it. the xmas tree is rubbish, no width. and btw i reckon my team would whoop urs!
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Joining in...
09-15-2005 3:06 am
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My England XI
GK: Ebsworth
At the Back:
Hawes
Bleby
R Mantell
Midfield:
West, Kirkham, Goudie
Attack:
S Mantell, J Clarke, Middleton, Jones
Put that XI in any formation, amybe give or take one or two names to suit pattern of play.
No Brett Gerrard i'm afraid, also no Tindall, Cordon, Wilson or Alexander.
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Lought5
09-15-2005 3:30 am
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'Esquire' & 'a team'
I knew these two name swould come up Mantell Junior& Matthews. Si Mantell did score aload of goals last year&also has a cheeky flick on him, he'll get his chance&best of luck to him.
Matthews? The debate will certainly be ongoing about this chap, there is no doubting he has some serious ability& can certainly flick a corner. Looking at the phsyical&mental buid up of the Koreans/Dutch/Germans, it looks like sheer ability just isn't enough nowdays. I know its an easy kop out but Vinnie used it with me so i'm sticking by it! Not at all bitter, honest!!!
Cheeseman?! The boy is class, i just love bringing his name up because it rattles so many people! I know he's not the finished article& his skills don't always bring an end product, i'm sure the season in Holland will change all that....hopefully! One thing is for sure, i'd much rather have him playing with me than against me!
Nice choice with Tails in goal, every time he plays us he's blessed, not entirely sure how he hasn't played more for england (was that his choice?), anyone know? Sensible answers please.
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Another supporter
09-15-2005 3:53 am
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Interesting options here - but glad to see Fair mentioned - cannot understand why he's not in the frame with Ebsworth.
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the point scorer
09-15-2005 4:48 am
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LOUGHTS TEAM
Coach J Halls - rubbish team, no matter how good a coach
GK Mason
RB Garrard
CB R.Mantell - injured , will miss loads
CB T. Bertram - picks and chooses games
LB Hawes - playing abroad
RM Cheeseman - playing abroad and dreadful. too cocky without being good enough
CM M.Johnson
LM Middleton
West - scores few, midfielder or defender ... not forward
Steadman - rubbish
CF Danny Hall
You will get few points
Fair - clean sheets
Nurse - corners
Ramsden - corners
Todd - clean sheets / goals?
Brown - clean sheets
Middleton - assists/goals
Johnson - assists
Browne - goals / corners
Hall - goals
Jones - goals
Daly - corners despite being rubbish outfield
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Question
09-15-2005 5:00 am
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Would be interesting to see how many places would be taken up by overseas players if allowed to be selected, a true fantasy XI
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Team
09-15-2005 5:25 am
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Lets stop mucking about just select the Cannock team with a few Reading players. Both teams could beat the England side that played in the Euros. I think last time Cannock played England they won easily enough said!
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fella
09-15-2005 7:33 am
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no alexander
so no one rated the rat? interesting, is a fit peckett the best ch option?
surely kirkham was a massive failure at europeans, too slow, too long on the ball
and wilson was a liability
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TinTin
09-15-2005 8:24 am
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agree with Team
Cannock/Reading have dominated!
No-one else is good enough,.
The facts show that!
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the cheerleader
09-15-2005 8:48 am
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stuff
the 'point scorer', you have some interestin opinions: nurse AND ramsden? steadman rubbish? browne plays for trinidad, and daly rubbish on pitch? watever mate.
As for cheesman, lought5 have u ever seen him play an international, has not yet lived up to any great expectations. and id much rather play against him because he has so much of the ball and rarely produces anythin from it. but thats all on that debate because he is only young, and will probaly be the face of english hockey, one day.
'Esquire' seems to have the best team so far. mine would be similar to that, mayb pearn in there somewhere. PS the rat is a headless chicken!
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leaguer
09-15-2005 8:56 am
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fella
Alexander didnt appear to be up to it in the Euros - gave away the ball cheaply and put in some dreadful tackles, also gave away PCs which is dangerous at that level. Didn't appear to be too co-ordinated at that standard. I am a fan of his from seeing him in Prem 1 and i like his general approach to the game - BUT he was found wanting at the highest level. Maybe some video analysis would help him?
Kirkham had food poisoning (if i've spelled that right?) at the Euros and yes, he did appear to be behind the pace a little but there is no doubting his enormous ability and true potential to be a great CH for England/ GB for a lot of years to come.
Wilson - i'm undecided on him. Only one season in Prem 1 then straight into the England squad? Surely we need experience at the back more than anywhere else on the pitch?
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Leaguer
09-15-2005 9:01 am
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Predictions
More the point: what does everyone reckon will happen in the top leagues this coming season?
Will Surbiton challenge for the top of Prem 1? What of Loughborough Students? Will they ever break into the top 2?
Prem 2: Will Bath gain promotion? How will "one-man-team" Holcombe fair? Who is strenghtening and who is being deserted like a sinking ship?
Prem3 North: Will it be a struggle between the sides relegated from Prem 2?
Prem3 South: Will the split in Leagues prove a success? Is the south league weaker than the north? Will Brum Uni power up to the top?
Who knows....???
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Yahoo Seriuos
09-15-2005 9:29 am
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The Duopoly!
no one will break this!
NOT ONE TEAM!
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anon
09-15-2005 9:48 am
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Team:
CB - Lee
CB - Mantell
RB - Hawes
LB - Marsden
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anon
09-15-2005 9:54 am
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CB - Lee (Matt not Jason!!)
CB - Mantell
RB - Hawes
LB - Marsden
CM - Glenda
RM - Middleton
LM - Moore
RW- Daly
LW - Jonesy
CF - Tindall (cos he sticks it in the net!)
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anon
09-16-2005 6:26 am
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Fair/Ebsworth
RH West
RB Todd
LB R Mantell
LH Hawes
IR Middleton
CH Kirkham
IL Johnson
FWS, Jones, Daly & Kerly (I wish!)
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bill
09-16-2005 11:15 am
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in answer to the earlier question Tails put his accountancy finals before an england tournament once and that was that. Funny decision really (!!) : gain a good qualification that'll help you have a good career for life Vs play for England/GB (probably benching for Mace). Shame really as he is still one of the 2 best GKs around (along with Mace), both are miles ahead of any other national league keepers.
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anon
09-16-2005 1:00 pm
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Interesting that nearly everyone selects Jonesy except Jason Lee!
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A female fan
09-16-2005 3:24 pm
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Jonesy
After Englands performance in the European Nations Championship they certainly need Jonesy back. Hopefully he will be back in the squad soon fully fit. England need a speedy goalscorer !
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shinpads
09-17-2005 3:21 am
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Help Needed
Recently someone put forward the proposition that the coaching staff organise training games (or test matches if you wish) against resident expats playing in the UK.
It would be a great idea as it would give the England squads (Men & Women of course) much needed practice against teams that do not play boring 4-4-2 orientated Hockey and then maybe the players (and coaching staff) will learn something about the finer skills of the game.
It does not matter who is selected for England/UK if those players are not capable of adapting to different styles of play.
Anyone want to pick a foriegn team to submit to the IVORY TOWER?
Maybe we could call the team "The Barbarians" or something equally crass.
Last point.. It would also be good international level practice for the foriegners but most here will say who cares???
Any improvement or challenge for the locals is good for the game here as far as I can see.
My 1st pick
Hibbert/Wellings (Goals)
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Lout 5
09-20-2005 7:59 am
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Bar Bars
LW - Nicky Thompson
CM - Wayne Denne
CF - Beefy Nichol
Will get with more.....
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Current English International.
09-20-2005 12:29 pm
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SHINPADS
NO EXPATS playing in UK with the exception of K Browne good enough to take on the might of the English.
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Girls U21
09-22-2005 4:17 am
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Do we have any England hockey team that is any good. I see the Girls team have followed the men's, ladies and boys team in being rubbish. They have only managed to beat the might of Zimbabwe and Chile and lost to everyone else. Time for Sport England and the Lottery to give up I feel and concentrate on a sport we could be good at.
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would pay to watch
09-22-2005 5:37 am
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LW - Nicky Thompson
CF - Greg Nicol
RW - Craig Fulton
LM - Simon Towns
CM - Kwan Browne
RM - Jason Tomlinson
no idea on defenders sorry, any suggestions?
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shinpads
09-22-2005 9:06 am
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X int Player
I think you are wrong.
But the point of this suggestion was to try to get a bit of hypothetical fun out of a diabolically bad situation for England Hockey.... not an ego trip for has beens and never going to be's.
There are enough Expats here to field a reasonably good team and if they do not beat the England squad it will be better practice for the squad than playing against Scotland (who they can't beat at the moment) and Wales etc. who all play a similar style.
Half the Pakistani team, most of the South African team, several very good Aussies, a few Carribeans, and a smattering of other countries are floating around so there are lots to chose from at present
Another one for the list.
C/B Marko @ Belper
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Another current International
09-23-2005 1:34 am
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Shinpads
You beggar belief and like all expats you think you know better than everyone else and can beat everyone. I wouldn't mind betting that you probably are a bitter 5th 1X club player who just maybe has umpired his clubs 2nd X1 club trials which is the highest level of hockey you have attained.
The english boys would whip an expats side by 10 + goals. Get real as most of expats names nominated only play for money and would'nt make the grade at current international level.
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nicky thompson
09-23-2005 8:13 am
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since when has nicky thgompson bin an ex pat??
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shinpads
09-24-2005 12:11 am
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nother international who neva won
Actually I will play for my 3rd,s and 5th's this weekend.
However that does not give you any concept of what, where, or how I played prior to that. And frankly it is none of your business.
All I have is a reasonable amount of knowledge of Hockey around the world and it beggars belief that people like you who supposedly have played at the international level really believe some of the rubbish you spout.
Facts speak for themselves and at present your national squads are performing poorly on the world stage and if you need evidence just look at the EH website now that this website is no longer able to give that sort of information out.
As for my next suggested players......
Wayne Denne .. Midfield/Half back @ Bath
And half the Holcombe squad!
By the way.... Almost all those mentioned have played internationals and many are Olympians
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Observer
09-24-2005 1:56 am
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Shinpads
Half the Holcombe team ! we now know you know zero about our sports. They lost 8 - 2 last weekend to a nat div 2 team missing 5 of it best players at the Chelmsford tournament.
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observer 2
09-24-2005 12:59 pm
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lought5?
speaking of the chelmsford tournament... how did loughts get on? have heard a few of their home grown players were playing for different clubs? true???? false????
whats going on at Loughts anyway???..
No recognised faces?
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shinpads
09-24-2005 3:22 pm
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predictions
Never take any notice of pre-season form. It always has a way of hitting the pundits in the face.
At the end of this conversation maybe we will find enough foriegn players to field the "Bra Baas" team.
And then again there may be some locals who actually have a reality check and admit that the elite of the UK need a lot of help to become the elite of the world. The rest can dream on.
Midfielder/defender
Mark Ramage (Wales/NZ etc.etc):D
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Sick Squid
09-24-2005 3:22 pm
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Observer
Let Shinpads have his opinion and get your facts right before you spout your usual carp!
The score was 7-2, EG are a div 1 side, as far as I could tell they were only missing Kwan Browne and Holcombe were the ones missing several players from the squads they were putting out last season. In fact the Holcombe squad looked quite young and raw.
Also EG look to be a very good outfit this season, they've got an exceptionaly talented squad together.
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JC
09-25-2005 9:17 am
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Just seen on the EH website that we are playing Ireland in November at Beeston. We may find out a little more about who Lee intends to pick for the future.
Anyone know anything about the Irish team - weren't in Leipzig?
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Jack
09-25-2005 1:05 pm
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Too many overpaid whingers who take the money and worry about playing later.Should be the other way round. Jason Lee is a decent coach but has no talent to work with.Fact.
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King
09-25-2005 3:21 pm
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I went to watch Cannock v Surbiton today. Cannock had just a few of England's team and Surbiton about 8 but Cannock played them off the park. Surbiton didn't have a shot until they were 5-0 down!!!! Jon Ebsworth didn't make one decent save, Rob Moore and Richard Alexander played as they did in Leipzig whilst Martin Jones, Michael Johnson and Richard Lane ran the show. Get a grip Lee and pick proven performers and not proven losers!!
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Bob
09-26-2005 4:24 am
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Plum
EG beat OG's in the final of the chelmsford tournament.
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A female hockey fan
09-26-2005 4:56 am
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England selection
Totally agree with King on this one. I was also at Cannock yesterday where they easily dominated Surbiton. At the moment I think that if you put in Cannock as the England team they would have better results than the present squad. Come on Lee get your act together, be brave and select the best players as I would certainly like to see England do well at the Commonwealth Games.
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Amused
09-26-2005 8:34 am
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Cannock and Reading
Cannock off to a 5 goal start against a rudderless and uninspiring Surbiton, Reading put 8 past Chelmsford, usual order resumed!
Large part of the current England squad playing for Surbiton, rather fewer playing for Reading and Cannock. Reading hattrick from Clarke, two each from Watts and Mantell. I suspect that the two top teams were rather good to watch, and that the players representing them played with skill and pace within well organised structures. It has been said many times but surely it is now too obvious to ignore that we should be taking the succesful recipes from these two dominant sides and using the ingredients at international level as we are clearly not at present. The coaching principles at Cannock and Reading are surely worth learning from, why can't we? The players are clearly capable of performing at the top level so why aren't more of them picked for England? Perhaps the players or some of them are deemed too young, or too old! Watts and Mantell didn't look to young at the European Cup in Amsterdam, causing Ribas and his Spanish international friends at Terrassa huge problems, and Todd and Bertram were simply the best defenders at the competition. Pick these players for England and learn from the top clubs and their coaches or we will be in the international wilderness for a long time. These two clubs have the confidence and experience to be progressive, and are alone in the country in the way they play the game and prepare and manage the players. A training game between Reading and Cannock would be better to watch than our present England side. WHY CAN WE NOT FOLLOW OUR TWO TOP CLUBS AND GET SOME INTERNATIONAL RESPECT. Perhaps the people in charge really don't have a clue, in which case let's change things before it is too late.
Final thought, I bet the two sides moved the ball forwards rather more efficienty than England when scoring the 13 goals, I haven't seen too many sides be successful passing the ball backwards!
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bobby
09-26-2005 8:54 am
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Cannock for England...and why not?! Add in the best Reading players and you'll have a good side that could win something for once. Why not have Copp or Mayer in charge too? They know how to win by the looks of things
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Interested
09-26-2005 11:11 am
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Div 2
signings for div 2 and 3 have been release this afternoon. looks like most of the teams have recruited well. So who will win it?
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toff
09-26-2005 12:12 pm
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mm
but Cannock are pikies, surely we don't want their sort at national competitions, the same can be said for reading, and they are nice young men,
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TinTin
09-26-2005 12:15 pm
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Cannock!
Great to see - these guys have been playing hockey together all Summer (surbiton that is!!)
7 out of 16 is a decent chunk of the sqaud!
They should dominate! SHOULD.........what rubbish we witnessed from the southerners!
They should have an understanding like no other team in the league at an INTERNATIONAL level!
5-0 does not suggest this!
It does suggest that Cannock are a great team!
It suggests that interantiopnally we are off the mark!
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analyst
09-27-2005 2:29 am
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surbiton cannock reading
the surbiton england players are probably the "bottom half" of the international donkey whilst Cannock and Reading have the top half. The rest of the C & R players are retired internationals (england and others) and non-eligible players whilst the balance of Surbiton are nowhere near the same international standard. Let's not get carried away with simplistic solutions to more deap-seated problems. Cannock and Reading cruise through the domestic season with only a handful of competitive games - Prem is crap by European equivalent standards. And before we hear the bollox about winning in Europe just how many times has an English club won anything in the last 20 years compared to Dutch, German and Spanish teams?
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coach j
09-27-2005 7:21 am
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asian players
about this asain players arguement, i've seen a singh player, in his early 20's, around the middle area, drag flicking. and who has great pace and can run with the ball, but hasn't been given the chance to play for u21?
their is discrimiation
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Ex Int. GK
09-28-2005 3:41 am
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Cannock
Asians zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Anyway, Cannock dominated the game, Fair in goal only touched it after approx 45mins. Micheal Johnson was pretty much the best player on the park and not in the England squad for whatever reasons....non-sensical!
There is no easy solution to our current state of International play but hopefully this has highlighted some areas that need urgent consideration.
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x90
