Comments on this article
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dp
08-30-2005 2:42 pm
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What a disgrace. Losing to Scotland in such a margin is embarrassing and surely should be the nail in the coffin for Lee. He has never won anything, as a player or a coach, and it's time for a good coach to be appointed.
Come on, Faulkner, make a postive impact on English hockey and do something before it's too late. We don't want a team of Scots representing GB at the Olympics.
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Scott
08-30-2005 2:48 pm
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Championies Championies
Well done lads 4-2 what a result who cares about the rest of the tournement
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Braveheart
08-30-2005 3:43 pm
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We stuffed them..... well done SCOTLAND....make us proud and go now and beat the BElgians....
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Socrates
08-30-2005 4:19 pm
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GB
dp, while i agree with you that we shouldn't get beat by scotland the fact is we were and unlike the last time it wasn't even close. What worries me is your assertion that we don't want a GB team full of scots. I thought the idea of a GB team was to pick the best players. At the moment that would appear to be our northern cousins. We have to get of our ars*s and do something positive about it. Anybody any idea where we start?
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welsh boy
08-30-2005 4:39 pm
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correction DP.......team of welshman. they beat Scotland. And i think i'm correct in saying that the welsh team get virtually no lottery funding!!
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Reporter & watched the game.
08-30-2005 5:00 pm
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dp
You call for Lee's head but it should be Faulkners head that rolls first. Faulkner is unqualified to take us forward and the axe should fall at the top first begining with the performance director and followed very closely by the self appointed 1988 club members, as they are the ones who ultimately have screwed up english hockey.
All Lee has to do is pick players with proven scoring ability even if it means plucking them from div 2 & 3 because the current mob have failed and then not to coach that ability for which they have been selected out of them and let them play with flair and not like robots.
The performance against the Scots was a bloody disgrace and I could have picked a team solely from last seasons nat div 2 who could have won this game.
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Observer
08-30-2005 6:01 pm
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Qualification
Maybe GB won't even get the chance to qualify for the next Olympic Qualifying Tournament. Thank goodness 2012 is in London !!
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Administrator
08-31-2005 1:53 am
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Observer
I predicted last season GB wouldn't qualify for 2012 and still haven't change my mind.
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steve
08-31-2005 3:05 am
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Well Observer remember the Greek fiasco as last Olympics, had to (and failed!!) in a play off game so don't count your 2012 chickens just yet!
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x
08-31-2005 4:34 am
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One thing that David Faulkner is very good at is making sure that when the xxxx hits the fan none of it sticks to him. At the moment he has a get out clause from the current unacceptable situation in that he was not in post when Jason Lee was appointed. Until he actually makes a decision that he has to be judged on then I am sure he, sadly, will not be going anywhere.
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Freeeeedoooooommmm!
08-31-2005 5:09 am
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Leaky
Beat it Taff bounce games don't count! If you were that crash hot I'd expect to see you in Leipzig.
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Stickman 87
08-31-2005 6:03 am
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dp
I don't think it would be a bad thing to have more Scots in the GB team. There might then be a bit more grit and determination on display. Scotland might not be the best team in the world at the moment but any Auld Enemy fixture, no matter what the sport, should give every player that extra boost, and make them more determined to win. I've got to say if that's the kind of display they put on against their old rivals then they don't deserve to be in the GB squad.
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X
08-31-2005 6:58 am
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Reporter who watched
Lee is the one in charge of the team and therefore should accept more responsibility for the performance than Faulkner. The excuse for not performing at the Olympics was lack of time to prepare. What's the excuse going to be this time, I'm guessing the young team, lack of experience line is going to be used. This said we should, and do have enoughplayers good enough to beat Scotland. Take nothing away from the Scots though, a good win for them.
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R.T. Bruce
08-31-2005 8:14 am
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Ingerland
dp, which I assume is short for double penetration, embodies everything that’s wrong with English hockey and vividly demonstrates the pitiful malaise surrounding Team GB. As a Scot with experience of English sides both Internationally and in England I can assure everyone that there is no shortage of talent available. However, the national side does not reflect the quality at domestic level, therefore, it’s reasonable to assume that the problem lies not with the coaches or the players but with the infrastructure between the clubs and the National side. I could sit here and happily gloat about Scotland’s tremendous victory in Leipzig but that won’t assist GB to defeat the likes of Holland, Germany and Australia, which surely must be our ultimate goal. Instead, I’d like to offer some advice for which I’ll probably be hung for treason. The player base in England is huge in comparison with that of Scotland but looking from the outside in, the selection process for England is chaotic, disorganised and tinged with nepotism. Perhaps a look at Scotland’s domestic set up would provide a few pointers on how to progress. While a complete blue print isn’t the answer, maybe the implementation of regional and National institutes would be a start. The situation could also be helped by affording club coaches greater responsibility for formally notifying the regional heads of institutes of a players potential. They in turn can communicate this to the National coach and the head coach of the National institute, thus very few players slip through the net. I know this sounds simple and depends a great deal on securing the right people for the right posts but so often the simplest solutions are the most effective. Surely England possesses the necessary personal to make this a reality especially when one looks at your clubs success on the continent.
As for the “Reporter” until the arrogance that permits statements about 2nd & 3rd Division players beating Scotland is ditched then your National side are destined to wallow in the lower echelons of world hockey and while the thought of this doesn’t exactly fill me with sadness, the fact remains that English hockey is the power broker for GB selection and therefore as things stand we are unfortunately destined for the same fate.
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Stunned
08-31-2005 8:25 am
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First, congratulations to the SCottish team.
Second - have read the comments on the fiasco at the men's Under 21 tournament in Rotterdam - it looks as though the senior team is going the same way. What on earth is going on with our game in this country. Is anyone of influence taking any notice of what's happening this year or are they all sticking their heads in the sand?
Selection needs to be made on merit - the best selected irrelevant of whether they are the ones who are best liked, or easiest to get on with. Let's get a few mavericks in there who can shake things up a bit. Aussie style.
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Pete
08-31-2005 9:36 am
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Anyone think maybe its time the players took some responsibility and we didnt blame the coach all the time? You people make me sick. It is a very young team and they will need time- in time they could be a very good team. You all bludy think so short term its so pathetic. How about you get behind the team and coach for a change and stop been such whinging idiots. Its the first major tournament for most of the players-give them a bludy chance.
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bob
08-31-2005 10:10 am
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future gb players
which males and female scottish players (if any!) do we all think will make the next or 2012 olympics thoughts!
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Dr Laughingjock
08-31-2005 10:15 am
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Pete’s Physiatrist
Unt first it’s ze players fault, zen ve should get behind zem ….make your mind up lad.
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Trying to be positive
08-31-2005 10:47 am
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I want to be positive... but i'm struggling.
Only saw the Belgium game but i thought Gerrard wasn't up to it in that match, neither was Alexander - too clumsy, and both gave the ball away too cheaply.
Scott Cordon - WHY?
Hawes did well as did Ebsworth, Jonty stood out for me as a class act. West was encouraging. Middleton was often isolated until he pushed further up towards the end. Is Jones still injured? A Middleton - Jones strike partnership would be good at this level i feel.
We just didnt have the fire power up front, the midfield was not up to much and the defence was clumsy, negative and wasteful with the ball.
I felt our tactics were too negative and we invited pressure and even invited Belgium into our D for a couple of free shots.
Watching other games on Eurosport i felt that other teams were far more positive and attacking and less content to knock the ball between the centre back and right back for most of the game, as we seemed to be.
No surprise we lost to Scotland - they attack.
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Pete
08-31-2005 10:58 am
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Dr Laughingjock ur an ignorant idiot
What is the problem with players holding there hands up to bad performances but us still giving them our support. The team obviously performed poorly against scotland but my point is they should accept responsibility for the poor performance and then learn from it and be better equipped to perform better in the future. Its such a cop out blaming the coach.
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interested
08-31-2005 12:01 pm
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do we know what englands starting line up was did it change or not from the 1st game
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Observer
08-31-2005 12:20 pm
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Pete
It the coach who selects the players who can't cut it, so the buck must stop with him.
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Socrates
08-31-2005 2:57 pm
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Eng v Scot
Scotland scored 4 goals from open play. We can only score from corners. Do I need to say more.
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me
08-31-2005 3:55 pm
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arrogance
I love the comments being posted here " we should be beating Scotland" why should you beat Scotland what god given right does England have to that? Scottish Hockey has been undergoing a transformation in the part few years which has taken a lot of hard work, the result is a structure and group of players that kicked your ass. Deal with it!
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"I don't think it would be a bad thing to have more Scots in the GB team. There might then be a bit more grit and determination on display" <<<< OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T THINK ANY OF THE SCOTS WOULD MAKE THE TEAM ON SKILLS ALONE.
Am sure the post wasn't meant to be arrogant and pompous it's prob just a character flaw, however now someone has pointed it out to you maybe you can go away and work on it?
Us Scots must look south of the border and ensure we never become as arrogant as those residing there.
Good luck against the Belgians guys am sure with the same determination and effort you can make the Semis.
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Englishman
09-01-2005 1:25 am
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Scotland
Good luck Scotland you have earnt it by beating a very negative english team.
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P
09-01-2005 2:58 am
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Me
Chips on both shoulders eh and an inferiority complex to boot!
Looking at the number of players in the respective countries England can and should expect to beat Scotland and the like - we didnt because we lack the grit and determination of the Scots (FACT). That doesnt take away the fact the Scots have improved and doesnt imply they have no skill - you added that, shame on you!!
You display the age old characteristics that prevent you from using this win to propel yourselves further. This is one match that you all built yourselves up for - beat Belgium and get to the semis where you can really have a go that way some good may come of it!
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Mini Me
09-01-2005 3:02 am
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Me
You beitch about the language used in postings and then finish with GOOD LUCK AGAINST THE BELGIANS WITH THE SAME DETERMINATION AND EFFORT YOU CAN MAKE THE SEMIS. No mention of skill etc there
MAKE YOUR BLOODY MIND UP
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John Smith
09-01-2005 8:58 am
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Question: Does England actually have a National Hockey League??
For GB/England to have any chance of actually being competitive in the future, then a reformat of the National League needs to be made.
Playing in the English National Hockey League for the 2004/05 season, I was very dissapointed by the standard of players and playing ability.
After reading many posts on this website over the last year regarding the English team, the teams officals, asian players blah blah, blah. Many do not relise that the Englands top players are not actually that good, and one of the main reasons that they think they are good is due to the stardard of the EHL. And if they do stand out, its cos most of the oppostion players are not very good!
This is more of a club competition than a National League. Some players in clubs are no where near National League level and the fact that players are not getting good competitive hockey week in week shows up when they have to play international matches and they can not handle such a huge step up.
Points:
The NHL is to long ... 23 weeks or what ever riduculous number it is!
The playing abilitities of players is to big amongts the teams, which leads to lower standards being played over these 23 weeks.
A solution might being having like what India, Malayasia, Pakistan and Australia have by having the best players playing against the best players from each region in an actual National League!
Increase the number of non eu players per team to attract other international players.
Any comments will be good!
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Smiler
09-01-2005 2:57 pm
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As far as I can determine, there are 8 teams currently playing in the A Division of the European Cup. This is an FEH/FIH Tournament. Here each team plays under a very competitive structure to determine a ranking order. At the end of the Tournament the final ranking structure determines the future of each nation's hockey for the next few years, with particular relevance to next European Cup, the next World Cup (and WC qualifying tournament) and inter alia the qualifying process for the 2008 Olympic Games.
At the moment the FIH has accepted that England's position will determine the position of GB in terms of qualifying for the Olympics. This appears on the FIH website in respect of the 2004 Athens Olympics. My question is, can another Home Country replace England as the "nominee" for the qualifying for the 2008 Olympics should this be necessary?
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Hump
09-02-2005 3:42 am
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I stongly agree that the EHL (1+2) is of an average standard. Some players in div 1 and even the prem are not good enough to play at that level but dont actually get found out that often. However, i must say that Div 1 looks as strong as it has been for a fair while for this season coming.
Not sure how you can have a 'National League North / South' surely these are just Regional prem (plus) leagues?
I dont think increasing the number of non eu players will help the standard of British players. We need to improve the talent base we have an enhance the current players play.
18 league games plus cup matches is surely not too long?
Football can say their season is too long with 50plus games but 22-25 games surely not?
The top 2 leagues need to be training 3 times a week, but obviously this is floored due to work, money etc.
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Agree with Hump
09-02-2005 7:22 am
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Agreeing with Hump - Prem 2 was competitive last year due to the number of play-offs for promotion and relegation, that made it intense but it was not quality throughout the season.
While the split in the lower leagues to go North/ South will help clubs field stronger sides due to less travelling commitments i think the split has been managed poorly, with all of the relegated clubs going into the North League rather than shared between them.
Hockey in general is simply not good enough in this country. Playing in junior sides of a good level (national tournaments, county, divisional) we never had tactics except to utilise the best players. Juniors need tactical awareness and to develop tactical flair and ingenuity.
We also need to take a look at the best styles of play abroad, in Europe, Asia and Australia - all of which have something to offer in the development of skills and tactics.
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Cocerned
09-02-2005 7:50 am
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National leagues
John Smith needs to exmine English Club's record recently in Europe. Just take note of what Reading,Cannock Surbiton,Slough Ladies,Leicester Ladies,Olton and Bowdon Hightown have acheived.Standards are not bad, not the best in Europe ...which is expected as most clubs have limited funding to attract word class internationals! Hockey has suffered greatly, as regards attracting good athletes, and having very limited resourses for training. Inspite of that, our current loss of form is transitional ....it takes time to develope international players.The question is ...are the right calibre of coaches being employed? Are we selecting the right players to progress in our international programm ....
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Prem player
09-02-2005 12:53 pm
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selection
I think Jason Lee has the best available squad. It's easy to criticise with retrospect when things dont work out.
The problem is that we are likely to be relegated to the "B" division with Scotland, and Wales and Ireland will be promoted to the "A"division for the 2007 Euro's.
As the supposed 'powerhouse' of UK hockey the England mens hockey team are going to find themselves playing B division hockey within very close proximity of an olympic games!! can English and Scottish players progress from such a level to the olympics, which will boast the real powers of world hockey (netherlands, germany, pakistan et al).....I dont think so. Looks like the Welsh boys will don the olympic kit!
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stickman 87
09-03-2005 2:36 pm
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re: Me
""I don't think it would be a bad thing to have more Scots in the GB team. There might then be a bit more grit and determination on display" <<<< OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T THINK ANY OF THE SCOTS WOULD MAKE THE TEAM ON SKILLS ALONE.
Am sure the post wasn't meant to be arrogant and pompous it's prob just a character flaw, however now someone has pointed it out to you maybe you can go away and work on it?
Us Scots must look south of the border and ensure we never become as arrogant as those residing there."
No player deserves to be in any international squad based on skill alone, 11 skillful players does not mean you have a successful team. There are a number of Scots player who do possess the skills to match guys from the other nations, but to be successful you need other qualities. Intelligence, vision, leadership, high work-rates, 'grit and determination'; just some of the attributes required. Very rarely will 1 player have all of these things, so there has to be a good mix of players.
Now if we can discuss the rest of your post. For you to try and belittle a hockey player for expressing his views smacks of an arrogance way beyond anything else posted here. And as for your comment about the arrogance of the English, you should be ashamed of yourself for labeling them all with the same tag. I have spoken to plenty of English hockey players/supporters who do not share the same views as some of the people who have posted messages on this page. And I can assure you that there are plenty of Scottish sportspeople who are already as arrogant as 'those residing there'.
Perhaps you should go away and work on your own characters flaws now that someone has pointed you in the right direction.
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another prem 1 player
09-03-2005 6:00 pm
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Prem player
You must play or watch games with your eyes closed, if you believed the squad JL took to Leipzig was the best of the bunch he could have selected. They were unadulterated crap and only one 1 game in the whole tournament
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another prem player
09-04-2005 7:52 am
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There are more than enough players to have a successful side, we need a proper coach, someone at the level the other national sides have. Lee is a joke at senior international level. Why on earth did he not do U16 U18 U21 get some success, learn his trade then tackle the national side. Did nothing with the students, why why why. It is a joke.
Sorrry to say we will have to get an overseas coach, Lee must must must step down and let a grown up takeover.
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x38
