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Observer
08-23-2005 5:53 am
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Well Done ??
Ya good finish but was it brilliant??? NO is the answer if you be honest about it. The french,scots and ukraines were all poor and to finish any lower than them would have been disaster considering the preparation that the irish team went through. At the same time ireland were never going to beat holland,germany and probably not england either. But a win against the spanish would have shown real progress in irish hockey and guarannteed a top 4 finish which would have definitely being a successful tournament. Dont get me wrong, well done girls but im sure ye know ureselves that it could have been better. Ireland need to go back to the drawing board and see how they can take the next step to be in the top four in europe. I think kuper has taken them as far as she can, but its time for a new injection.
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Digger
08-23-2005 10:52 am
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Couldn't agree more Observer! The team deserves credit for coming 5th but we can't kid ourselves either, as you said we finished above three teams who proved to be very, very poor. I thought Spain were actually a very good team so I wouldn't be critical of our failure to beat them but I was very disappointed in our general standard of play. I honestly don't see any big improvement in technique/tactics etc. I think Kuper has done a good job but I really believe it's time for some fresh ideas to move us up another step. Maybe I'm a little biased coming from the same neck of the woods but I'd love to see Bernie Heffernan given a go. One thing's for sure, she's get them playing with plenty of spirit!
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???
08-23-2005 11:21 am
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I agree i think everyone knows that it is time for Kuper to go, she did a fine job till now but it is time for someone fresh!!!!!
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Jenny
08-23-2005 11:34 am
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Ireland did "allriet"
Well done to the Girls in Green finishing in fifth place. Observer is quite right - the French and the Scots aren't good enough for the European A division - their displays were very disappointing. The Ukrainians had a few very talented individuals, but their team lacked unity and a game plan for each match (what their coach lacked in expertise, she certainly made up for in shouting incessantly at her players - just glad there wasn't an interpreter present !!!) Ireland did Ok against the aforementioned teams - but overall it was just OK ! The draw against Spain was a little disappointing, considering that the Spaniards had been beaten by the USA the week before in Virginia. Maybe we should be following Spain's lead and developing a young squad for future years.
But weren't the Dutch just great to watch !? To keep that momentum and skill level for the whole five matches of the tournament was admirable. The final against Germany was an exciting encounter - a real advert for the game ! It was of particular importance for personal reasons to Ellen Hoog, who scored both goals in the 2-1 win, and dedicated them to her father.
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supporter
08-24-2005 11:41 am
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he dutch
I agree with you jenny - the dutch were absolutely brilliant. their team work in both defence and attack was quite unbelievable. its hard to imagine us ever being able to compete with that sort of level of skill. I read somewhere that Kuper has arranged for two irish players to go over to holland to play for a season? anyone know who they are?
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Observer
08-25-2005 2:52 am
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Emear Creegan & Jill Orbinson are going for 4 months
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Anon
08-25-2005 3:59 am
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Supporter
Emer Cregan and Jill Orbinson are heading off till December from what i hear?????
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Maddness
08-25-2005 4:24 am
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to everyone....
The 2 players are Creggie and Jill Orbinson...Going until xmas I think.
With regards to the observations above. Ireland achieved their highest placing in a Euro competition and still we complain but I do understand some of the sentiments that people are expressing. Yes it would have been fantastic if we got into the top 4. It was always going to be a big ask. I thought that Ireland have come a long way but were very nervous in some aspects of play for a considerable amout of time during the matches. I though Creggie was under used against France, which in hindsight was a mistake considering we only scored 1 goal. Im sure the reason that happened was that she was being saved for bigger matches. Im not going to go through the squad and say who played well or not as this message board has a tendancy to vilify players needlessly. I thought our ball retention was excellent under a full court press but we made some final pass errors that undid the good work. These are all elementary mistakes that the girls would be so annoyed with but you do get days like this, thats hockey for ya!
On the subject of Riet staying or going. That is a difficult one. Has the Irish squad made progess under her. Definately yes. How much progress? That reallty depends on what Riet committed to the IHA. Personally, I think there are players out there that for what ever reason have not been involved over the years that could have helped the cause considerably. Once such player Catriona Carey, just back in the squad after a long period and IMHO players some superb hockey during the Euros. Simple hockey played super effeciently. Well done Catriona. I think Bernie Heffernan would be excellent but I dont think the IHA would look at it that way. It will come down to the type of profile that the IHA want for their coach, preference for a Foreign coach, who has their FIA coaching badges and who has already coached at this level. That rules out nearly every coach in Ireland. The IHA should look at Bernie and say what do we need to get her to the level that will work?
Finally, I think the Irish womens hockey squad deserve a lot of credit for the commitment, dedication and comraderie that they have shown over the past couple of years. Players have been slated, insulted, vilified, and moaned about. I have seen and heard of some squad members really hurt and upset about things that have been said here and there. But even after all the insulting has subsided? Do these players run and hide? No way...they are out training 6 days a week, going through pain for one cause playing for our country. We should be sooo proud of them whether they finished 1st or 8th.
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jj
08-25-2005 6:58 am
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The two players going to Holland are Cregan and Orbinson.
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Froggy
08-25-2005 8:37 am
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Players going aboad
Eimear Cregan & Jill Orbinson are to play with some Dutch giants. Have to say I'm tired of Kuper criticising our play at club level. Wasn't it her who suggested our national team all play in one club side ... that'd be pretty destructive. Not sure what the solution is, perhaps train the trainers. Obviously if we could raise the standard of play at club level, the national side would benefit.
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C
08-25-2005 5:10 pm
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Maddness?
Enjoyed your post, interesting thoughts. But I think you are wrong to criticise the previous posts, they were honest and fair in my opinion. As someone else said we just have to be realistic about it, we finished above three very average teams so there's no point getting carried away. I think also that our finish was about right, it was good to draw with Spain but I don't think we're any where near as good a team as they are, they deserved to reach the semi-finals, we didn't.
I disagree with you when you say our ball rentention was excellent, under a full court press or otherwise, I honestly that that, along with our passing, was the weakest aspect of our game. We just gave the ball away far too often and I didn't think too many of our players looked particularly comfortable in possession.
I was generally disappointed in how we played and like an earlier poster I really didn't get the feeling that this team has made major progress in recent years. I'm just being honest.
I would also like to see a new face take over, I really don't think it's healthy for the same coach to be in charge for so long. I agree, if it happens I think the IHA will go for a foreign coach, I honestly can't think of any Irish born coaches who might be ready for the job as of now.
As for Kuper's comments about club hockey - let's be honest, she's right! The standard is generally poor, I didn't even think our big teams (Hermes, Pegasus, Loreto) were too impressive last season.
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Supporter
08-26-2005 10:44 am
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Club standard
I think the biggest factor separating our club sides from the dutch club sides is the standard of coaching. Imagine how high the club standard would be if we had someone as good as Kuper coaching the top 10 sides.... You could tell by the way the dutch national team played that their style of play - defending in 3s, zonal play etc is something they do week in and week out. If Eimear Cregan and Jill Orbinson are heading out there to play it'll be really interesting to see what they think of the standard of club coaching.
It'd be great if more of the international players who retire turn their hand to coaching.
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Supporter
08-26-2005 10:51 am
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Another thought
Did anyone else notice how it wasn't necessarily the players who usually stand out at club level that stood out at the Euros for Ireland? Alot of the fancy play we see from certain players didn't cut the mustard against holland and spain. But it was the reliable basic play of the likes of mckeever and o'brien that really stood out.
Give and Go. Don't take players on 1 on 1 til you are in your opponents 25...... Kuper watch out - i have my eye on your job!!!
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Keeper
08-26-2005 12:07 pm
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The problems in ladies hockey goes all the way back to the schoolsd. As an Umpire I dread doing girls schools matches, all long ball up the middle, no lateral play, no team play and invariabley a coach and two Mammies running up and down the touchlines screaming contary advice/instructions. IHA should look at possibility of placing full time coaches in each province who would travel aroud the schools coaching the players and more importantly the coaches. Perhaps it is something our current international players could do in a semi-professional playing role?
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Maddness
08-29-2005 6:56 am
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to Keeper
Good suggestion Keeper....would you be interested in the job?
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Ally
08-29-2005 10:07 am
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School hockey
I partly agree with Keeper on her thoughts on school hockey, it is true that some schools are as she states but others are working hard and the improvements are amazing.
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hockey fan
08-29-2005 5:36 pm
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Supporter
Not so sure about your comments on Kuper and coaching the top 10 sides. We might have lots of negative 0-0 draws as no one did anything positive and not sure how successful Kupers people management style would be with club sides. probably reduce participation.
the problems are a lot deeper rooted than any one issue such as coaching,schools vs club, unpires etc
If Ireland are to make the step to the next level then a change is probably needed. Kuper has taken us to a steady level in world hockey and put a base of physical preparation in place but a greater degree of mental toughness, set piece efficiency and attacking flair is needed now to make the jump further up the ladder. Given the evidence of the games in Belfield at the Europeans these are lacking in the current set-up.
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FAN
09-03-2005 10:32 am
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ENERGY LEVELS
Saw some games on telly from Europeans and was most impressed by Carey. That lass had more energy then the other 9 put together. She worked tirelessly and with or without the ball ran and ran and ran and ran- has a great never-say-die attitude which some of the others could learn from. Caulfield was good too
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MS
09-05-2005 7:47 am
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COACHES
Going off the topic of conversation but does anyone know who is coaching Pegasus, Harlequinns and Ards this year??
THANKS
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as far as i no
09-05-2005 4:50 pm
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harlequins as far as i no is being coached by david williamson n ards by a guy called gareth from civil service,pegs i have no idea bout
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MS
09-06-2005 5:52 am
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As far as I no
Thanks a million for that was just curious. Just heard Niki De toit is not with Vics anymore and was wondering was she coaching elsewhere
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as far as i no
09-06-2005 10:30 am
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no think she's headed back home but not sure
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Sam
09-06-2005 10:49 am
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I believe Niki is still coaching at school level
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munster goalie
09-07-2005 11:55 am
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ladies fixtures
does anybody know when the new ladies fixtures are meant to be coming out?
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don king
09-09-2005 8:52 am
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schools cups !!!!
STOP NOW!!! its that time of year again!!!!! schools hockey tournaments are to begin and once again there are several teams up for the challenge!!!!
SO WHOS GOT THE BALL THIS YEAR ????
come on dnt hold back............1sts and 2nds
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ha ha Class
09-09-2005 5:54 pm
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ok which province are we discussing!!
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big don
09-14-2005 4:40 am
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schools cup
burney, mccullough, dowdall cups and the prior sheild !!!!
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x28
