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Umpiring errors do not augur well  x49
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| Asia |
July 25, 2005 
Hindu, India
> Page Views 13930
S. Thyagarajan
CHENNAI: Surprising lack of uniformity and unacceptable vagaries in umpiring, bordering on whimsical decisions, produced a devastating effect on the four Asian teams in the recent junior hockey World Cup at Rotterdam. None of the coaches, or managers, leave alone the players, is without a tale of woe.
India was not the only victim. The worst was the reversal of a goal signalled, recorded and accepted. The scenario is grim for a sport, which seriously wants to compete with popular disciplines on TV.
Why should Nathan Stagno, who was nearest to the action, be influenced by the other umpire, Klein-Nagelvoort Erik almost 50 yards away because some Spaniards would not accept the verdict and rush to the other umpire is incomprehensible.
The incident left a bitter taste, and was slotted into history as another umpiring aberration robbing the team. Just imagine a scenario of Argentina, Australia and India in the medal bracket without a single European team on board in a world competition.
Asians affected
If there is a note of commiseration for India, it should be equally so for other Asian outfits ? Korea, Pakistan and Malaysia.
For the Koreans, the reverse against Germany in the classification tie was tragic. Leading 4-2 midway in the second half, the Koreans, reduced to nine players because of two yellow cards, lost by a golden goal after Germany made it 4-4, about 29 seconds before the hooter. Where the Koreans were done in was when the Dutch umpire Van eert Rod forgot, or so it is imagined, to recall one of the Koreans.
Malaysia's disappointment was a last minute penalty corner that led to Pakistan scoring the match-winner after the regulation time. Coach Sarjit Singh gave vent to his anger and disappointment as he stormed out of the ground.
The Pakistanis too were disappointed when the Spanish umpire Requena awarded a stroke and a yellow card for skipper Shakeel Abbassi against the Netherlands.
Largest viewer base
Cataloguing umpiring solecisms affecting invariably the Asian continent, which the International Hockey Federation believes to be the largest viewership base, should not be mistaken as a litany of excuses to make up for other inadequacies. On the contrary, the exercise is aimed at drawing attention of the powers-that-be in the FIH to the growing cynicism that the Asian players are needlessly targeted in crunch situations where the benefit of the doubt often goes against them.
What needs to be emphasised is that no single entity from the continent, whatever be its influence in the decision-making apparatus at the FIH, can improve matters.
The issue must be taken up collectively under the umbrella of the Asian Hockey Federation, sinking differences that palpably exist and are exploited by others in various spheres.
The AHF is duty bound to press the FIH to utilise technology to minimise umpiring errors; at least in situations, where doubts arise whether the goal is scored or not.
Your opinion counts.
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Comments on this article
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Hockey Observer
07-25-2005 6:08 pm
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More Whinging
Please Planet FieldHockey I think we have had to suffer enough of these comments/articles re umpiring. I am sure many other countries in the world can put forward similar scenarios. The top teams do often get the rub of the green but maybe teams should put more emotion and effort into becoming a top team and then staying there.
I notice that the majority of the articles come out of India. Perhaps in light of the over age allegations they should get their own house in order as well.
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Overseas Hockey Fans
07-25-2005 9:48 pm
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Hockey Observer
Comment is comment, umpire spoil hockey wasn't the first time. I recall I went to Kuala Lumpur to watch World Cup and yearly to KL again for the Shah tournament. I was left with question about umpire standard. After fieldhockey played in turf, most of the umpire were on western team. I am not against them but this was the fact. I want to give up traveling to watch hockey but the love of hockey always in my heart.
Seems FIH or whatever superperior body seems don't or not doing anything.
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hockey player
07-26-2005 3:33 am
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stop the whinging
Why not have a third umpire?
Hockey rule have changed so much over the years,
the game as got much quicker.
Surley you have to change with the game, Is 2 umpire ok?
Why not use new technology if it there?
FIH use new technology to change the game from grass to astro.
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wacker
07-26-2005 4:23 am
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Whilst valid points on the quality of umpiring are made in the first part of the article, the latter paragraphs on the decisions "affecting invariably the Asian continent" is utter rubbish.
Having watched all the England games for example, a number of crucial (bad) decisions were made against them. In the game against Spain a goal was disallowed that video eveidence later showed to be a good goal. In the game against Korea, Korea were awarded a goal that didn't hit a forward's stick in the circle.
I'm sure that if you ask followers of any other team in the competion, they would be able to quote instances of decisions that were just as bad.
Any talk of an anti-Asian plot is ridiculous. The simple fact is that work must continue to improve the quality of umpiring, and personally I would start by simplifying some of the rules and making them less open to interpretation.
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Yen
07-26-2005 7:45 am
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dont cry for me
why do asian cry.
High time we stopped crying and start palying
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hockeyman
07-26-2005 7:49 am
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to hockeyobserver
majority of article comes from india the main arguement was on the match played between india and spain the reason is very clear because of live telecast on tv where everbody could see how a clear goal was disallowed.which not only shocked the viewers but everone including comentator.when we see replays surely we feel bad .first the goal is awarded and then reversed by the dutch reason is simple because dutch is a coach of a spanish team how about this.so stop giving your bias opinions.
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Wansbo
07-26-2005 11:49 am
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Too Much crying over spilt Milk
Every Hockey player has a story of how an Umpire blew a call and it cost his team a championship/gold medal/world cup. I have been playing and Umpiring for over 35 years and heve played in over 15 countries and I will inevitably but not purposefully miss a call that may cost a team a win.
I am not sure I would ever try to over rule an Umpire in his own circle when an obvious goal had been scored ..unless I had seen an off the ball incident that disadvataged a defensive players ability to play the ball..
In the Champions trophy in Pakistan last Dec in the NZ/India game the Paksitani Umpire gave India a phantom stroke when the NZ defender dispossesd the Indian player in the circle . TV replays showed the Kiwi player got all ball yet the stroke was given and NZ's tie with india put them out of the Champions Trophy. The NZ coach said he had nevr seen such bad Umpiring in his 30 odd years .
It seems to be a losers cry around the world ...the Umpires did me in !
Wansbo
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Keely Dunn
07-26-2005 11:52 am
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Mistakes, not bias
This "article" is not only embarassing to the writer, the country and continent who he's misrepresenting on the whole and Planet Field Hockey. It's insulting to the many international umpires (like myself) who read its contents.
If there is a single subscriber here that has umpired international hockey and can explain how to make calls intentionally to bias one team or another, I'd be prepared to hear how you do it. The complexity of the decisions we are required to make combined with the speed with which those decisions are required leaves no room to calculate for whom we would rather see the call benefit. You cannot fathom how truly difficult it would be
Also, I would like to hear any contributors' personal experiences with making the wrong decision in a significant match at that level. International umpires are graded (on a numerical system and with comments) on every single performance. Our appointments and promotions to higher levels are a direct result or those grades. Negative post-game debriefings and tournament reports can absolutely shatter our self-confidence as well as our standing vis-a-vis the other umpires with whom we're in fierce competition. Every umpire at that level is striving to reach the top (i.e. a Gold Medal game, the World Panel, the Olympics) and price we pay for those mistakes can be extremely high. No international would sacrifice what we do personally and professionally in order to achieve success that level, just to throw it away on one game in order to please a coach that happens to be from our country or some other nonsense like that.
I will sign my full name and stake my reputation defending each umpire accused in the above "article" and every umpire around the world. For the amount of thankless and incredibly difficult work we do in order to provide hockey players with the best game possible, we deserve better.
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Hockey Player
07-26-2005 11:55 am
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Hockey Observer
Please note that some of the comments are from UK where I live so please grow up and stop telling Hari what to do, he is Indian as well and kindly note that the net has made it a real world which you guys are not getting used too. The Indians are making comments because they were robbed by Dutchies and that is why they are complaining and no other reason.
Yen, I have no comments for you as you are unable to understand small things
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StickUp
07-26-2005 4:25 pm
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To: Keely Dunn
Reading what you've said, I think you've spoken from your heart. I don't know how it is to be an umpire and agree that its a stressful thankless job. And yes we do appreciate good umpiring and understand that you'll can make mistakes and also that some FIH panel umpires lack integrity and competency. Maybe all international umpires need some kind of orientation on adaptability to alien teams and their game style within the purview of the game rules. Consistancy in decisions to both teams alike (even for mistakes) would be fair umpiring.
S. Thyagarajan who wrote this article has probably seen more modern international hockey than anybody has. I have been reading his hockey write ups and reports of all Word Cups, Olympics, Champions Trophies, Asian Games, other tournaments etc. since the early 80's and has been an astute observer of the game and players (European and Asian). Never in all these years have I read a whole write-up by him on umpiring and for him to do this shows how we feel cheated time and again. At the same time he has written and been critical on internal issues of Indian hockey, system, board, coaches, players etc. and are well aware that things are not right on our end either.
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andy roddick fan!
07-26-2005 5:24 pm
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bad umpiring
As a player who has LOST 2 international matches in the past 2 months due to BAD umpiring I would welcome the '3rd umpire', although it is hard for the 3rd person to cover the whole pitch at once.
why not a video umpire in big matches - the olympics for example?
All that i can say is that i know its hard for umpires to keep up with the pace and see everything - isnt that why there are 2 there????????????????????????????????????
But it IS hellish UNFAIR when you lose INTERNATIONAL matches because of bad umpiring - and thats NOT me being bitter-the hard work was done!
(but hey - you win some you lose some!)
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Dude
07-27-2005 2:53 am
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To Keely Dunn ; The devil is in the way the rules are applied !
Thanks for that nice post. You make your points clear and its re-assuring for us hockey fans to know that there are de-briefings after the game where an umpire's performance is evaluated.
I globally agree that umpiring "mistakes" and not "bias" are the case. However, incidents like reversed goal in the bronze medal playoff at the JMWC smack of Bias all the way. I wonder how that de-briefing went.
But, honestly, I dont think the post game evaluations that you mention are sufficient to ensure Bias free umpiring. It simply ensures that no umpire would blatantly make an erroneous call. This almost always never happens. However, current rules give ample space for an umpire to apply his call in favour or against a team whilst fully being within the "rules". That's where the Bias kicks in.
For example, rules state that any discussion with the umpire withing the D is a penalty corner. Now If that is applied each time there will be a GLUT of PCs awarded. Interestingly that is applied¨, it seems, at the "discretion of the umpire.
Another example is the advantage rule. That is simply bollocks with the umpires playing aroumd at will and making some crazy decisions.
So why would umpires want to make calls in favour or against a team given that they are nuetral. I'll tell you why...Umpires are Human. Let me expalin. As an Indian fan, when Mexico plays Chile, I want Mexico to win. Why ??? Because I simply like Mexico morer than Chile. We all have our preferences. Umpires have theirs too. Majority of the umoires are non-asian, and it simply a staistical outcome that a Belgian umpire sees more in common with a dutch team than say a pakistani team.
What I cant understand is why not bring in the 3rd umpire and close these allegations out once and for all ??? Now the FIH wont do that ( becuase they believe in the superhauman nutrality of folks like you) and you cant stop us from screaming BIAS against asian teams.
Let the party go on !!!!
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rashid
07-27-2005 7:27 am
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asian hockey was killed when synthetic turf was introduced.
so that asian countries could not afford to this expensive turf.but when this people failed to stop the asians. umpires like Klein-Nagelvoort Erik, Requena have taken the job to kil us. but this is not going to stop us man.
very soon we will be seeing the chinese coming into action in bejing oylmpics and also in world cup qualifiers in 2006 where they are the host.
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COOL
07-27-2005 9:12 am
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SACROSANCT! DEMI-GODS!
I'm not sure that the goal disallowed against India was right or wrong.
But, from reading the above posts; I've definitely learned one thing. That is, umpires and specially the demi-God internaional umpires are sacrosanct and cannot be questioned by mere mortals. Such as Thyagarajan; who is but an ignorant journalist! Having written for the past 30 years and being the favored FIH writer does not count!
The likes of Keely Dunn have convinced me that if the umpires make the rarest of rare mistakes, it should not be questioned. They are a law unto themselves!
Most likely, this is what is sick about hockey!
Ms Dunn, I apreciate that you umpires do a thankless job, punishing yourselves at the cost of providing fair and free hcokey to the rest of the world. But please do not give me the sanctimonius dribble about you guys being beyond human vices. Unless ofcourse, in Hockey umpires we've found the perfect human, ready for heaven.
And for all who are crying about spilt milk, loosers, cry-babies etc. have not got what it takes to fully appreciate that articles such as these are a must for a healthy debate and ultimate improvement of a great sport that needs a major overhaul!
//
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Deep defender
07-27-2005 12:56 pm
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hockey umpiring
There wouldn't be an end to arguments about umpiring/bad umpiring. But whatever it's I for one would say India had suffered a great deal because of other umpire, away from the action, influencing the decisions already given in India's favour. The FIH should do something to put an end to this. Let third umpire be introduced in hockey too without losing any time than allowing an umpire to ridiculously consult the other just because he was stormed by players!
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gavin caldecott
07-27-2005 1:23 pm
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umpiring
As a player and an umpire on the rise in Canada, having a quick read here has made me pretty sad......
It is a very very judgemental job that umpires have in the modern game of hockey. And no doubt whatsoever, that something has to be done to improve the game... for spectators, players and of course, make things easier for the poor guys with whistles!
However, writing on this page gets nothing done whatsoever guys and girls..... if you have issues, then the only way to find a solution for those issues... is to come up with a plan to make things better?!?!? No amount of criticism is going to help, only a plan and some action behind that plan will better the game and the umpiring.
So I challenge all those who have put comments up here.... either go and write the umpiring exam and start learning how you can help, and those who have higher status in the game, lets start working on doing more to better what is already there... with plans for long term improvement in hockey.
Stop taking the easy route and blaming others... take it upon yourself to do something constrcutive!
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Alessio
07-27-2005 8:22 pm
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Too err is human
I have to stand up for the umpires too. Though I am never into serious umpiring myself, I have to salute these people who voluntarily sacrifice their time to do this "thankless job".
Umpires at these level are just like the players too. They have their performance accessed, and their games appointment often reflect their standards on the on going tournament. They are athletes and they also have aspiration to be in the top level.
So, the umpire screwed big time in the final day of the tournament. Was it intentional? Do you think that umpires would come all the way from all over places to be remembered doing mistakes like that?
Some players or coaches are sore that they have lost games due to bad umpiring. Remember, games too can be lost due to bad players performance or bad coaching strategy.
God has never created a perfect human..... Who are we to ask for a perfect umpire, player or coach?
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Keely Dunn
07-28-2005 3:31 pm
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re: StickUp
Having given it more thought, I appreciate why Planet Field Hockey published this article. It's important to flush attitudes like those of Mr. Thyagarajan into the open and expose them to earnest debate. So StickUp, thanks for your response. I'd like to address a few of your points.
First, you ask (I think) whether I can agree that "some FIH panel umpires lack integrity and competency". The second issue is frankly not my job - I don't have the expertise or the standing to judge the competency of my colleagues (I'm a little busy with working on my own!), and that's not what I'm arguing. It's with the first issue that I take such extreme umbrage.
Let me be very clear - I agree that even the best umpires make mistakes. Some of those mistakes are serious, and in the most terrible moments, game-changing. We all strive for an would love to achieve perfection. Everything we do is aimed towards that goal. We are all excited about innovations that would help us to this end as long as they do truly assist accuracy - whether it's video review, a 3rd umpire, etc. We want to be right too.
However, I strenuously disagree with the statement you make that "some FIH panel umpires lack integrity". This accusation, which comes out casually and probably without intending its true consequences, is unquestionably the worst thing you can ever say about an umpire. It's akin to accusing a player of throwing a match for personal gain. No person should be able to accuse an umpire of making an intentionally incorrect decision in order to disadvantage a particular nation or continent of hockey with such patently circumstantial evidence. The crime is far too great and damaging to all of us.
It?s a little odd that Mr. Thyagarajan can claim that ?Asian players are needlessly targeted in crunch situations where the benefit of the doubt often goes against them?, after listing an incident in a MAS vs. PAK game. I could be mistaken as to whether PAK is an Asian nation but since they are listed as an aggrieved party later in the article, I think I?m on the right track when I say that it cannot possibly be argued an Asian team had been ?needlessly targeted? or more directly, the victim of bias, in that instance.
What's worse is that we as a society are so desensitized to these kinds of accusations. Even my husband told me yesterday that I should expect this, it's all part of being an official. The prevailing attitude is that it?s ok to lose our composure and rationality when the stakes get high, or when a person is particularly passionate about their sport or their team (as StickUp tells us Mr. Thyagarajan is). I don't accept that; I care too deeply about hockey and sport generally to believe that our passions strip away our ability to be fair and reasonable people at the end of the day.
Don't think I don't empathize with the player or fan that "feels cheated" as you put it. I still play at the club level and I surprise myself with how much more critical I am of an umpire's performance after a match I've played in as opposed to one that I'm observing, say in the role as an assessor. But I always catch and remind myself that as soon as I'm a passionate participant in a game (whether as a player, coach or fan), I lose my ability to be objective about the officiating. I *must*, as a reasonable and rational person, accept regardless of how poor the umpiring might have been (and it is never as poor as I thought it was) it's NOT directed at me personally. The mistakes (as they may have been) were made honestly and without malice and as such, I must accept them as part of the complex beauty of sport.
There's a huge distinction between "feeling cheated" and "being cheated". In every game, one team is usually unhappy about the umpiring - the loser. In a 16-team tournament like the men's JWC, I imagine that 15 teams were angry and only one team was not. wacker gave examples earlier in this thread going to this point. Given that an Asian team did not win this tournament, I'm not surprised that all Asian teams had "tales of woe". However, it's fundamentally illogical to conclude that since all Asian nations are unhappy, there must be prejudice and bias in officiating against Asian nations.
The bottom line is that there are no ?differences that palpably exist [between Asian and non-Asian nations] and are exploited by others [as in non-Asian nations] in various spheres? as stated by Mr. Thyagarajan. We all agree that we want higher accuracy in decision-making on the pitch. However, we cannot address improving standards while loosely flung about implications and accusations of prejudice and bias are targeted at umpires.
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Keely Dunn
07-28-2005 3:39 pm
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re: COOL
It's unfortunate that you misread my post to such an extent. At no point did I ever say that we don't make mistakes, or that our mistakes go unquestioned (which I clearly stated is quite the opposite since each and every one of our games is graded). What I said is that we would not and do not intentionally make incorrect calls that favour a team in line with some imagined prejudice. We simply err in the most human of ways - in the heat of the moment with the best intentions.
I agree with you that we need healthy debate, and it should include all of us - even the lowly umpires. I hope that helps clarify my position for you.
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Hmnn
07-28-2005 3:53 pm
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For everybody who has asked not to criticize the "human factor" in the umpires...we'll thats the reason for asking for 3rd umpires. Like cricket, ..they should be devoted to very very specific cases alone.
As for critiquing the coaching strategy and the players..remember that the goal in question was scored in a deadlock game with less than 5 min to go for the final hooter.
So one cannot argue the player skill or the coaching credentials of either side at the argument. Also if I may answer the "retortical" question of whether umpires would like to be remembered for giving wrong decisions....do you remember the name of the guy who called the HAND OF GOD a goal??? No you dont. Do you remeber Dicky Bird for his controversial decisions ..no you dont ...unless you set the trend to hold umpires accountable for what they call..they will always get away with poor calls!!!
I hope the resonable sense in all previals. Although India brooding over the loss is crying over spilt milk and they'd be better off just forgetting about the whole issue of loosing out on a medal , they do raise a point in the level at which umpiring in hockey has remained stagnant and will not be tolerated by fans anywhere!
I surely wouldnt like to listed to umpiring human errors in a league game let alone international matches. I have heard one famous retort from a player "if you're playing for them umpire ...then why are you wearing a different jersey?? I dont mind playing against 13. Just let me know if you need a stick."
I hope that none of the umpires on this forum end up hearing that.
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Indian
07-28-2005 5:27 pm
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Thyagarajan Rocks!
I have grown up reading Thyagarajan "ST"s match reports for the past many years - probably 20+. He has seen more hockey matches than all the supposedly know-it-alls in these postings have ever done put together. I have seen him always taking a balanced view, mostly spanking the Indian team and Indian officials. To see him vent like this finally makes me think that I am not the only hockey cynic in the planet. I used to love this game. But over the years, I have grown very cynical because I now beleive that international hockey matches are fixed in advance by the powerful lobby in FIH. Umpires are the least powerful of all the types of people in any game. They are the most susceptible to pressures and are easily manipulated. Most of them are not well off financially, and the only way to see the world is at the mercy of the FIH. The powers that be in the game based in Europe are hell bent on destroying this game by their machinations. The only way to save this game is to take it out of Europe. But unlike Thyagarajan's view that AHF should go beg FIH, AHF should conduct its own international games with 3rd umpires and certainly video replays. No amount of money spent on video equipment will be worth more than the trust of sincere hockey lovers. Sahara has done the right thing by issuing a warning to FIH. Its time to take FIH head quarters out of Europe into Asia, just like what Cricket has done. Thats the future.
Keely Dunn asks anyone to explain how one can intentionally bias one team or another. Here is how: There are two umpires in a game. You and someone else, let us say for the sake of convenience "Nathan Santagno". Now, Nathan sees a goal and awards the goal. The goal is announced. It is recorded. Nathan was close to the action - after all he was in the D. You stand about 80 feet away in the other corner of the field. Now, you walk up to Nathan and tell him he should reverse his decision and cancel the goal. Poor Nathan - he comes from an unknown hockey country and he fears where you come from. Out of fear that he wont get any more international outings he does the unthinkable and cancels the goal and kill a good deal of the game. What you have done is intentionally bias against the team that scored the goal. I hope you now understand how intentionally biasing against one team is done. For your kind information, this was also what happened in the junior world cup.
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3rd Eye Blind
07-28-2005 5:27 pm
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For those of you who believe that umpires are biased against Asian teams - answer me this: how is adding a third umpire going to help things?!?!? You're just adding another biased umpire to the mix (I don't believe umpires are biased).
If you can accept that this event was an umpiring error - they make them all the time - then we can discuss the merits of a 3rd umpire. But it won't solve this supposed "bias" and "conspiracy" against asian teams.
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Indian
07-28-2005 7:34 pm
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3rd Eye Not Blind
Hello 3rd Eye Blind:
What everyone has been asking for is not a third umpire on the ground. The third umpire is supposed to be the video umpire - one who adjudicates a disputed call based on review of video of the action. This is done in Cricket for many years now. Once there is video evidence, the on-field umpires are less likely to be so openly corrupt (such as the Dutch umpire in the India-Spain match who walked from across the field to cancel the decision of the closest umpire) because they know there is official evidence that can catch him and which can be used by the teams affected. FIH has been steadfastly opposing video cameras even in world level top events because it will make influencing umpires difficult.
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Farooqh Bulsara
07-29-2005 3:44 am
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As an umpire who is striving to gain their FIH badge and recently got the marks for this I have watched this debate very closely. I have listened to what Keely has said and what spectators have said and also what some players have said. Only a few people in this debate have been rational and what we have to do is step away from our emotions and look at what is happening. I have watched the decision in question and yes the decision was wrong but it was given in a split second by an umpire who obviously felt that something was amiss. I am also sure that the marks for that game will reflect the mistake that he made. However, I did not witness one Indian player in that game who did not make a mistake and following many of the peoples arguments above does that mean that all the players where in on this so called Asian bias.
What all umpires I have ever played with, known or umpired with try to do to the best of their abilities is to blow the game as they see it. I have yet to meet one umpire who has taken the pitch solely with the intent to cheat against one nation. We all make mistakes some larger than others, umpires are not perfect but then neither are players. We strive to make sure that all decisions that we give are fair, reflect the rules and are within the spirit of the game. This is the same attitude that players have, in that they want to go out and give their best using the skills that they have.
Also it would be abundantly clear very quickly if one umpire was cheating/bias for a team and that would be the end of their career and their so called holidays around the world, what umpire who has given up so much to get to that level would want that.
I would take issue with the thought that all FIH umpires have an anti asian bias and having recently umpired the Pakastani U21's in a game they won against a European nation where I was roundly lambasted by the Pakastani coach I came to the conclusion that the only way he would have been happy was if I had awarded them 10 penalty strokes and sent off the whole European side. As it was his complaints were completely unfounded as shown by the video later that night, did I ever receive an apology or a well done for that game!!!!!!!
What I am trying to say and what Keely has said is that we are all passionate about the game and that colours are viewpoint. The umpire made a mistake but so did many of the umpires throughout the tournament were all these umpires bias against the team they gave them against. I don't think so and I most definitely hope not. Take a look at the game rationaly and see the decision for what it was, a mistake and not part of some big conspiracy theory.
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From the Sand Pitch
07-29-2005 7:54 am
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This is just plain silly
I consider both umpires "in question" as very good friends. Neither one are biased people and both would go out of their way for the good of the sport, match or a friend in need. Both are humble and very good human beings.
In looking at the situation that occoured, there was no conspiracy, and there was no bias towards either team, except in the opinion of someone looking in the wrong place for an excuse for a team with a lot of hope not placing where they fully wanted to be. Rather than look at the blown opportunties that any skilled team would have, this back page, tabloid writer is trying to bring down two true gentlemen of the game.
Let's not highlight the accusations that there MAY have been overage players on the side. What should be looked at by any team that didn't place in their expected slot is the missed opportunities, bad decisions, poor executions and lack of equal heart amongst the club. I don't know if any of those topica apply; however, THOSE topics are what a good writer would work with... not pointing fingers at people that were trying very hard to whistle a quality match that both teams deserved.
To be honest... if there was a third umpire, what is to say that accusations of biased behaviour would decease? The scandal in German football tells us that even three aren't perfect. It is a game, there is passion, and there will always be someone else to blame.
Let the clock hit 70:00 on this topic.
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3rd Eye Blind
07-29-2005 8:48 am
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You missed my point... IF FIH has this big bias against Asian teams, how would a third umpire (watching the video) help? That umpire could simply cheat as much as you allege the two on the field are doing.
Also, it is very rare that something such as "did the ball cross the line" or "was the ball in the circle" is the controversial decision. It is the awarding of a stroke for a hard tackle, or a PC for a questionable foot. Those are the kind of judgement calls that you realistically could take to the third umpire (if you followed the NHL and NFL models of video review). You still have umpires making extremely quick decisions that do affect the game.
And umpires do work in teams. An umpire can ask for advice if he has any doubt. Having the "off-side" umpire make a call is not uncommon - quit making it sound like this never happens.
It makes me sick to listen to people claim biased umpires cost India a medal. Even sicker that it is some FIH conspiracy.
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Ankit Desai
07-29-2005 11:55 am
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Its understandable if the umpire who was standing in the D made mistake but look at the the point when the umpire who was 70 feets away came to the umpire who can see better then him , and asked to reverse the decision.
Its really something bias ok so, try to understand the whole situation nobody raise fingur against the UMPIRE comunity , but such insident raises question against UMPIRE's capability.
In this Artical even some umpire also agreed taht decision was wrong than what steps the FIH is going to take? is there any program to improve the skills.
Work on that .
And yes its a really bias decision against the Indian.
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3rd Eye Blind
07-29-2005 12:06 pm
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Where in the article do other umpires agree a mistake was made? What you don't see is this umpire getting a reprimand, and likely not invited back, from the umpires' manager. From all account he made a serious error. My guess is that this umpire will not be selected for events in the near future - this is his punishment. Watch for his name on the FIH promotions list and at tournaments in the future - you won't see it. Those are the steps FIH are taking.
Understand too that sometimes the closest umpire does not have a perfect view. Players can shield his view. The "close" umpire in this case obviously had some doubt or he would have not taken the (bad) advice from the off-side umpire.
And no, it is not a bias against India. A bad, and very costly, decision? For sure. Bias? No. India goes into every tournament expecting to win despite a lack of success in previous tournaments. Teams and coaches are changed right before big events. Indian Hockey should get it's house in order.
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3rd Eye Blind
07-29-2005 12:14 pm
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re: Ankit
Look at the results:
World Cup
2002 - Kor 4 Pak 5 Ind 10
1998 - Pak 5 Kor 7 Ind 9
1994 - Pak 1 Ind 5 Kor 8
1990 - Pak 2 Ind 10
Olympics
2004 - Pak 5 Ind 7 Kor 8
2000 - Kor 2 Pak 4 Ind 7
1996 - Kor 5 Pak 6 Ind 8
1992 - Pak 3 Ind 7
These results show that Asian teams do finish very high at major events.
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Realist
07-29-2005 12:39 pm
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Mistakes
All those players and coaches who have never made a mistake or error on the pitch please put their hand up ?
Was that shot on goal an intentional miss ............hmmmmmm ?
If you add up the mistakes and errors made by all the players during an entire game then I guess you can give the umpires one or two and the players will still be making more errors !
Dont get me wrong....i think that virtually every umpire i have ever played under needs more training and i believe that the FIH and the individual countries are a long long way behind when it comes to umpire training. Where are the sight tests for umpires ? they should have a sight test before every tournament and not just a standard test but a test to identify their ability to see fast moving objects (yes they are available).
Umpires should also be much much fitter ! they should be able to run as fast as an outfield player running with the ball so for an internaional tournament that means ...very fast !
They should be made to watch videos and give what they think is the right desicion in a variety of situations and then compare these calls with all the other umpires for that tournament.
But as for umpires being biased hmmmmmmmm sounds a little bit like the asian players saying that all white people are racist ?
Umpires may indeed be bad umpires (in fact i think the list of good umpires is a lot shorter than the list of bad ones) but biased ?? at the international level ?? and only agianst asian teams ?? oh please !!!!!!!
Grow up !
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Uknow
07-29-2005 8:42 pm
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Aren't there two problems? Protests and bad decisions. Forget the business of "bias" - that argument gets you nowhere if you are advocating change. It only gets everyone's backs up and makes you a conspiracy theorist.
Bad calls go both ways, but there shouldn't be any and maybe a 3rd umpire using technology can avoid some of these. That i sall we need to avoid...SOME, that will be a net improvement (no pun intended).
Protests onfield whether Indian or other teams should mean automatic reduction in players. So end that right there.
But I think the goal in question the so called "rare" problem that 3rdeye blind you are talking about. But is it so rare?
I recall several instances where goals were disallowed and the decision became controversial in similar circumstances, i.e., not instances of interpretation on severity of the foul. That should be left to the on field umpires, I think.
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StickUp
07-29-2005 9:11 pm
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To: Keely Dunn
I wish and hope the fraternity you so earnestly defend possess your sincerety and dedication. Your arguments are truly convincing and yes I'm too passionate about the sport and my team to be objective and not to not lose my composure when I see blatant umpiring mistake; to the point of casting doubt on the individuals integrity.
But when occurances are high there is a question mark on improving standards. Merely shrugging off valid criticism and repeatedly justifying them as another mistake does not augur well for the sport (like Thyagarajan says). As a hockey community we all enjoy and want a good clean game and there needs to be an on going improvement process for it to happen and for us to continue to respect the institution of umpiring.
I'm no international coach or player nor do I recollect having watched you officiate any match, but here's my Thank You.
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HockeyLuvr
07-29-2005 9:15 pm
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To "From the Sand Pitch"
Sand Pitch: You mention:
>>"this back page, tabloid writer is trying to bring down
>> two true gentlemen of the game"
Now, this smacks of arrogance to say the least. You seem
to be reacting in the same manner as several of the posters
on either side.
What's your background with regard to hockey? Are you one
of the FIH international umpires? Do you represent FIH? Player?
Local Umpire? How many international games have you watched
live over the years? How are you so sure there was no conspiracy?
The two umpires may be very good friends (perhaps that's why
you react in this manner to the article) of yours, but do you really
know what happens behind the scenes? Juxtapose this with the
writer, S. Thiagarajan. He's been writing about hockey for well
over 25 years (atleast that's how long I've personally been reading
his writeups)!! Like someone else that pointed out, he is well
respected, always balanced and he travels to international
destinations to cover the games--no armchair writer. He's neither
a backpage nor a tabloid writer. That's sheer ignorance on your
part. Go do the research. The Hindu is over 100 years old and
is one of India's largest daily newspapers with several millions
in readership. You just cannot be the hockey correspondent of
such a mainstream newspaper and get away with writing crap.
Besides, FIH themselves have acknowledged his contribution
to the hockey fraternity and he is a member of the FIH
Communications & Information Technology Committee!
Go figure! So, just take his view points in a rational manner--perhaps
he knows more than you and I do! Sometimes you just have to
call a spade, a spade.
HockeyLuvr
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manik
07-30-2005 6:49 am
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what ankit is saying is right.
everbody agreed that there was some umpire mistakes in that match.even a dutch reporter said "match was robbed from indians"
i just dont understand how could the dutch umpire see from such a distance.there was also other flaws in the match.
my request to ten sports to re-telecast the match so that i can have some video recordings of the match.
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hockeyman
07-30-2005 7:31 am
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TO GAVIN CALDECOTT
what i would like to say is that in india vs spain match there could be india winning if the goal would not be reversed.but spanish players protested umpire who declares the goal first reverses his dessision after consulting the dutch umpire who was at a certian distance from where it is imposible to take any disssions.
the dutch umpire must have told the other umpire that there is no european country in top 3 positions so we will kick this asian out of bronze medal match.
this is one rule thought to dutch umpire in umpiring examination is it not Mr.gavin caldecott.
then we can say its a HUMAN ERROR.
BE READY FOR MORE SUCH HUMAN ERROR IN RABOBANK CUP( MINI-WORLD CUP) IN AUGUST AGAINST INDIA.
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Ankit Desai
07-31-2005 10:30 am
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Here Third eye is really blind
Thanks EYE , aftre all you accept the fact that UMPIRE did a mistake there. I appreciate it.
- We are not aginst any country , I am against the system.
- Did you read other articals " Dutch ref gave indian pain, spain gain " and " Umpire succumed to pressure tactics " (Page 4 in this forum) in the first artical the person who claimed that he is an Umpire from UK accept that Umpire made mistake and another person from Dutch who claimed he was there next to Camara crew also said bad decision.
- I said bias because in the match against Australia when Indian player V. Raja oppsed the decision Umpire gave him a punishment. Now dont say each umpire has different view. if so than why rough against India. While spain players oppsed the decision , look the out come the decisive GOAL denied. :confused: . And you still want proof against Bias ness.
- And there is a big difference between your guess and reality which we will see in future.
And why do not we expect from our players to win every tournament who have calibre , I am talking about Juniors.
And its not your business to get Indian hockey federation in to business except if you are Indian citizen.
Yes, Its Bias.
Ankit Desai
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ON Fan
07-31-2005 2:47 pm
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Ankit Desai and others
As a caucasian ex-international umpire who has umpired Asian vs. Asian and Asian vs Others at the highest level I ask - How many times do Keely Dunn and others who know what they are talking about have to say to get it into your thick heads that wrong or bad does not equal bias? Let me say it again wrong/bad does not mean biassed. Let me say it again wrong/bad does not mean biassed. Let me say it again wrong/bad does not mean biassed. In fact it is the ultimate insult to any umpire to say that thay are biassed. Please feel free to criticize umpires for the quality of their decisions, training, eyesight and anything else that is relevant but do not accuse them of cheating unless you have evidence like in the German soccer scandal. I made many bad decisions in my career (one that advantaged India over Belgium in a Junior World Cup match) - and many more good ones -but I was never biassed and I do not believe that I umpired with anyone who was biassed.
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yuey
07-31-2005 2:49 pm
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indian victimhood
I was there in Rottrerdam watching the game that precipitated this rubbish article. I'm not sure wether the umpires were right or wrong but they certainly didn't lose India the game. India won't win anything until their whole attitude changes. The Indian coach not only put a poorly organised team on the pitch but conceded the psychological advantage to the Spanish by trying to pull his team off the pitch after the controversial reversal. India is blessded with talent beyond the dreams of most hockey nations but play like a bunch of individuals rather than a team. Losing the semifinal to the Australians was entirely their own fault, no umpiring involved there. They should have taken a leaf out of the Aussies book as the Aussies were not dominant individually (except for Mark Knowles) but were the best functionong team there. An example of the ridiulous state of Indian hockey is that they couldn't accomodate Ric Charlesworth as a coach. You get the feeling that the Indians would rather cast themselves as victims and live in the past than do the hard yards to fix things up in their own backyard. This isn't apparently not confined to hockey but permeates a lot of Indian sport. Just refer to the Olympic record.
The above article is itself a good example of why India fails, not the rubbish within it.
PS. I'm not sure the Pakistani's, Korean's etc like being included in the never ending Indian search for excuses for failure.
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From the Sand Pitch
07-31-2005 11:27 pm
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HockeyLuvr
What should it matter what one's credentials are? I was simply giving an opinion of what the article has brought as far as a discussion. I am far from arrogant... I, like many others, am very tired of the accusations that the journalist is tossing out. As far as what involvement I am, maybe I'm a writer, maybe a sports psychologist, maybe a player, maybe I'm a fan of the game. It really doesn't matter. I have no reason to provide you a listing of my credentials as I'm not on a job interview here.
While the gentleman who wrote the article may have covered hockey for 25 years is irrelevent. What is relevent is the fact that he's forgotten his journalistic credo to create a fair representation of the story. He has assumed many things in this story without talking to any of the people actually involved at the tournament in order to determine if there is or if there isn't actual bias. He has no interviews with the technical staff, only the opinions of a few who had a vested interest in the game from a heart and blood standpoint with regard to being a fanatic of the Indian side. For the references towards Pakistan and Malaysia, he doesn't paint a picture of what caused the PC, the stroke or why yellows were given. His only report is the "controversy" and not the facts behind those situations.
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Keely Dunn
08-01-2005 12:13 am
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Team umpiring
Several observers have asked how it is that an umpire that is 50 metres away from an incident could have a better view than the umpire standing mere feet away and thus can "overrule" the controlling umpire. It's not one umpire asserting dominance over another, or some wicked pre-determined plot at work - it's just team umpiring.
Conduct a simple exercise: raise your hand a few inches in front of your face, spread your fingers and look at another object several feet away. Move your hand quickly back and forth. Now, move your hand until it's your full arm's length away from your face. You can now see that distant object much better, can't you? When you move your hand side to side, it blocks much less of your view, does it not?
Think about your perspective as a player - when circling a free hit when your opposition likes to drive the ball as hard as possible straight at you, you back away and give yourself more space and time to accurately judge the path of the ball.
So, it can be dangerous being too close to the play. In some cases, it is important to be closer in order to see what happens (i.e. did the ball entirely cross the line). However, in other cases, it can be a serious disadvantage - you can be blocked at that critical fraction of a second, or your eyes simply can't track the ball moving at 150km/h, 24? away from you. And the game moves so fast that you can be too close and too far within seconds of each other, leaving you little opportunity to adjust.
Enter "team umpiring", a philosophy that's being encouraged more than ever before. For example, the "non-controlling" umpire is in a better position to see things like the height of the ball when struck the first time on a penalty corner, and we're coached to allow that non-controlling umpire the primary decision for that call. The non-controlling umpire is also better able to see off-ball fouls, things that are outside your peripheral vision as the controlling umpire because you're focused on the action around the ball and your vision narrows when that action is close to you. So you work together all over the pitch, and particularly in the mission-critical area of the circles.
The intent of team umpiring is to get more calls right. It's a delicate balance of responsibility, and the process can be complicated by language barriers between the two umpires. Sometimes, the two umpires literally do not see the call the same way; resolving those differences involves a mix of pre-match planning, trust, experience, and gut instinct. We hope that teams and spectators get the message that we truly are trying to work together, and when critical decisions hang in the balance, two heads are better than one.
Have you not been on the sidelines watching a game, and seen something happen in the circle that to you was so clear, and yet the umpire and players right there couldn't see it? In that instance you had a better angle due to your greater distance away from the play, and sometimes, so does the non-controlling umpire.
Hope that helps.
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H
08-01-2005 2:40 pm
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Wanted Un biased umpires
Where can we find non-biased umpires? This seems to be the most talked about thing. The Indian team supportes claimed that the European umps, are against then. So that leaves us with having Asian upms, only to officiate matches between India and others.
So senario, IND vs PAK. Who's going to officiate this game? Since the Non-asian umpires are biased.
Something to ponder.
Cheers all.
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Ankit Desai
08-01-2005 3:36 pm
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Decision
To ON Fan:- As I said before and now too that I am not against the whole Umpire comunity. I respect them and their decision. I also appreciate your service for the game Hockey.But point is if the decision was came from the closed one than its more acceptable and ITs a MISTAKE if it was wrong. But by the umpire who was 70 feet far ...., I cant believe. And he reversed it when Spainiard grip the closedone and forced him to call the far umpire and after the chat dont know what far one saw ans said, that decision was reversed. I can't believe. sorry about that. Lets The decision against V.Raja in the match against Australia was considered as mistake, but was it fine when the same thing which whole spain team did against India? Than really .....
To Yuey:- If the non qualified teams like Netherland and germany are too strong and their coaches are too imprecive than why didnt they were there at semifinal? here we are arguing about decision not for coaching tactics. Listen if Indian senior team will loose the match with fair play than its less care subject(Dont take my point wrong) , I mean its not top team in world. but when the team with caliber lost it by such so called mistake than as a matured person and a fan I will there to raise my eyebrow.
I can understand the team umpiring theory. But here spain and other have the sponcers who are in field to pramote and specially MARKETIZE hockey in europe and no european team was there in semis at that time this Team Umpiring theory is not applied, after all its a business and its really a factor to be concidered. Dont say Sahara also a sponcers for Indian team and FIH. Its also playing it part to file complain.
Try to understand the things.Dont force me to write grow up.
And its battre for the great game hockey to kepp politics far away.
Ankit Desai.
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Can Fan
08-01-2005 11:53 pm
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Thanks Keely...
Couldn't have said it better.....
Stephen
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XXX
08-02-2005 12:30 am
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Umpiring
INDIANS - Get over it. Umpires are trying their best.. Thats all there is to it
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ON Fan
08-02-2005 10:29 am
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H
H writes "Where can we find non-biased umpires? This seems to be the most talked about thing." It might be the most talked about but as I and others have pointed out it is the wrong focus. Umpires sometimes make wrong decisions but they are not biased. Maybe the question should be is "Where can we find journalists, coaches, players, and fans who do not accuse umpires of bias when umpires make difficult/controversial decisions?"
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Parmar
08-22-2005 3:14 am
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Rules for umpiring
Umpire is one the person important during the game!
Players and coaches should be help for Umpire.
No umpires no games!
But ofcourse the umpire need take responsibility in the games.
Is the person who make the final dicission in the game.
Umpires also need punish if they don't take serious and responsibility.
If they are International Umpire make a mistake should be warnning!
Second time finish the level of umpiring.
Next Tournament change the other umpire!
Rules:
Can not blow for during 2 years!
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Balbir
08-24-2005 8:25 pm
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Umpiring Course
Asian Umpire in the top position.
Very few asian umpire in the Olympic Games and World Cup
I am umpire from poor country.
I never have oportunity to take any umpiring course because I can not find the sponsorship to go to course.
My friends want me to ask for Asia Hockey Federation the umpiring course need sponsorships, air ticket, accomodation, meals, transportation.
How can find the person who love hockey?
Is it possible?
FIH how we can do it?
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Old Umpire
08-29-2005 10:10 pm
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Umpiring
We hear all kinds of comments on umpiring. It is good for the game, but everything must be improved for the good of hockey.
How, simple, when FIH can change the rules to suit every one, the turf changed to suit the game then the situation of the third eye must come in the same way as in Horse Racing.
When the camera comes in when there is a tie by the nose for the horses. Why not in this situation where the umpiring committee have three nutrail Umpire Judges for every game watching from the corner of a secluded office the whole situation.
Think about this when we can talk and comment about others we can push the FIH to do it this way, by all of us Hockey Fans, Players. Coaches, Managers, the Officials of all member countries, and most of all the Great Media Hockey writers helping to get the third eye in all important tournaments.
Every thing has a prize. Let the host pay for the extra cost.
What about it Hockey Fans.
What about it FIH.
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