Sat 22 Nov, 2008
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MJWC: India: IHF official levels overage charges  x31
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July 23, 2005 
Rediff.com
> Page Views 6547
Seven players, who represented India in the just concluded junior hockey World Cup, were over the maximum age limit for the mega event, a senior official of the Indian Hockey Federation alleged on Saturday.
According Narinder Batra, senior vice-president of IHF, V S Vinay, Vivek Gupta, Vickram Kanth, Navpreet Singh, Hari Prasad, Senthil Kumar and Ajitesh Roy were all aged over 21 years, the maximum age limit for players in the junior World Cup.
Batra, in a letter to IHF Secretary General K Jothikumaran, said "the source from which I have got this information has also informed that this manipulation in the age of players was done on instructions of senior IHF officials."
Batra claimed that while Vinay was of 24 years 6 months old, Hari Prasad was 23, Vivek Gupta and Vickram Kanth were over 22 each. Navpreet was 21 years two months old and Ajitesh was almost 22.
Batra said since there were two players with the name of Senthil Kumar -- R Senthil Kumar and G Senthil Kumar -- he was not sure which one took part in the world Cup. But, he claimed, both were overged.
IHF Secretary General Jothikumaran declined to comment on the issue saying he was yet to receive a copy of the letter.
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Comments on this article
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Doddy
07-24-2005 10:30 pm
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Over age
Makes you wonder: Did they do the same in Hobart 2001 when they won the JWC?
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hockeyman
07-25-2005 1:36 am
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was narendra batra sleeping before players were send to jwc why now this stupid arguement is made about the players overage .if age tampering is possible then we should send dhanraj pillay and others to play juniorworldcup next time .is jwc a joke. democracy in india does not mean you can talk anything. proper action should be taken about this stupid article.
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sukh ram
07-25-2005 7:55 am
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not surprising
Indians are known for cheating and crying foul at umpires. Now an Indian himself is making some serious charges.
What a shame considering they still did not win a medal. Should take back the 2001 gold as well. Probably cheated on that one too.
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LAD
07-25-2005 10:08 am
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HOCKEYMAN
HOCKEYMAN YOU SEEM TO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HOCKEY IN INDIA. ACTION IF ANY HAS TO BE TAKEN ON INDIA SENDING OVERAGED PLAYERS TO THE JWC. YES INDIA HAS MADE THE JWC A JOKE. CAN YOU IMAGINE THE COACH HARENDER SAYING THAT THERE WERE 4 TO 5 PLAYERS IN THE CURRENT JUNIOR TEAM WHO COULD PLAY THE NEXT WORLD CUP IN 2009. THIS MEANS THAT WE HAD 4 TO 5 PLAYERS UNDER 17 IN THE TEAM, WHAT A JOKE AND BUNDLE OF LIES. DO YOU REALLY BELEIVE INDIA DOES NOT OR DID NOT MANUPILATE AGES OF THE JUNIOR SQUAD. ARE YOU SUCH AN INNOCENT PERSON. WHICH STATE ARE YOU FROM JUST LOOK AT YOUR STATE'S JUNIOR PLAYERS AND YOU WILL SEE WHERE IT ALL STARTS. PLEASE BELEIVE US WHEN WE SAY THAT INDIA DEFINITELY TAMPERS WITH AGE. I CAN VOUCH THAT VINAY, VIKRAMKANTH AND HARIPRASAD WERE OVERAGED FOR THE JWC.
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Canadian
07-25-2005 1:12 pm
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Not a surprise at all!
Previously Pargat Singh had raised similar concerns, and now another Idian pointing the same thing. What a shame!
It is quite easy to tamper with the age both in India and Pakistan. I talked to one of my friend who has lived in that part of the world for over 30 years before moving to Canada and he confirmed that it was not hard to get a new birth certificate with tampered date of birth. You only need to bribe the officials who issue such certificates.
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ND
07-25-2005 2:34 pm
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Age/Politics Issue
As I have written before, more than 50% team that represents JWC is overage.
But it has been going since JWC started.
Sad part is Mr Batra choose to open his mouth now? And it's all politics, he being anti Gill faction.Where was he during all those previous JWCs?
Yes it is also true that IHF/couches know about overage players and they encourage it.
But they should know that by sending overage players does not guarantee anything but they are discouraging underage players.
Yes India has made it a joke, and it should stop if they want to see progress in Hockey. It is ethically wrong, but unfortunately ethics is not a word in Indian dictionary.
Completely agree with LAD's comments.
A Former Player.
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Ankit Desai
07-25-2005 4:50 pm
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Juniors
Its understandable to oppose Gill and current managemant but not in the cost of players.
Mr. Batra should think about players before putting such charges.Politics is good on its place but it is sport.
And if I talk about over age factor than we did enough comment . Whole world knows that many country send overage players to compit no matter how many.
So, please dont blame only India.
To Canadian there is not any country in the world which officers never except bribe, no doubt amount and number of acurence are different.
So, please dont make any drama.
Ankit Desai
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Player
07-25-2005 7:44 pm
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Overage Players
All this will not come about if only FIH is more pro-active to things rather than relying on passports to verify the players' age. It is time they use scientific methods like conducting tests on teeth & bones which will be give a better and more accurate indication of a person's age. Come on man, science the way to go. Get out of the shell!
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H Dhillon
07-25-2005 9:03 pm
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Funny............
We all know this happens in all 3rd world countries, India is no exception, and it should not happen. It is not good for any one.
But on the name of Hockey people should stop bad mouthing that this only happens in India.
I am living in Canada from last 10 years, and let me tell you My dear Candaian, there is lot of bad stuff here as well.
And you that you can get anything you want in Canada, if price is right !!!!! only diffrence is amount of money.........
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K. Arumugam
07-26-2005 2:33 am
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Age of players are genuine
Dear Friends
Batra is hell bent on spoiling the image of Gill. There is a nation wide anger on the way mr. gill runs the hockey affairs, which Batra wants to harness. But to drag the players to score a point agaisnt gill is not right one. Players' age are genuine. I do not know how some one who lived in India saying that changing date of birth is easy here. My reactin to this is , it is a joke. It is always easy to say negative things, but ultimately truth prevails.
I only pity on players who worked at least four continuous months in practice camps and finsihed a creditable fourth in a field of 16.
There is one player called P.R. Sreejesh, an up coming goalkeper. He is now a 11th class student. His age is 16. he was one of the finds of the PHL. What's wrong if Harendera says he will play one more Junior World Cup. This is actually one of my conerns to IHF why to bring too young people into the national scene. When Jugran made the international senior grade he was below 18, and Punjab police gave him a job asking him to join once he attains the age of 18.
For heavens sake, don't find fault with anything that is Indian. Letting down India is, may I say, letting down hockey.
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manik
07-26-2005 4:09 am
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To Mr sukhram
i think you need some rest .because after reading this politically motivated article or gossip.you must have lost some of your mental balance.the way you react to this article and call indians are cheater is not your fault.IHF is a big mad house stupid statements and arguements have been part of IHF for long time it is nothing new for us.they don't known what they do and what they talk.changing coaches,sacking coaches in tournaments or before tournaments ,blaming colleagues,players, coaches and misfired experiments have been all part of IHF.so i suggest to all you people not to react to this gossip and get fooled.this is a routine part of IHF to keep us entertained when there is no hockey played.for us this is is one more bouring stupid article as always.if there is any thruth in this article it is fih to investigate and take action.so dont get excited take some rest because there will be more entertaining stupid articles to follow very soon.
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Dude
07-26-2005 4:14 am
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Batra is a cheap opportunist
Firstly, if Batra has the proof let him go public and prove it.
Secondly, why did Batra not raise this issue prior to the Junior world cup.
Thirdly, He should have spoken to IHF first before going to the press.
Batra is just a cheap power hungry opportunist !!!!!!
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hockeyman
07-26-2005 8:00 am
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to lad
i think you are god who knows wvery detail of our player where you in hospital when they were born.if india is tampering with age proof then why not other countries man.you must be one more in the list to blame indian hockey.so stop your arguements and come to india and investigate .
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I was there
07-26-2005 11:16 am
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age concern
My observations regarding teh Indian team and the above allegations are as follows, and I was at Rotterdam to watch the JWC:
a) I was concerned about three players , as they seemed to be more 'mature' then
other players. Also did have doubts about players from other teams
in particular a keeper who seemd to have even premature grey hair. These players
seemed to be very much quicker, faster & stronger then the others and their
maturity gave their age away and dominated play.
b) photocopies of the passports of all players have been taken by the officials
c) if a player is 21 years old before 01/01/05 then he does not qualify to play in the JWC
d) if countries are found guilty of bearking the law then they must be excuded in the
next world cup. Let's hope we can find some way of regulating this.
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OutOfTouch
07-26-2005 4:43 pm
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K Arumugam
Nice to see K Arumugam's comments:Letting down India is, may I say, letting down hockey.
I am little out of touch with the current hockey affairs but form K Arumugam's comments it looks like that India must be doing great recently.
Any information/update on India's performance over the past four/five years. I Know they used to win some thirty years ago.
Thanks.
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hmph
07-26-2005 5:37 pm
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hmph
how come the officials of the tournament didnt notice.............................?
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harrumphy
07-27-2005 11:12 am
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re: hmph
Because (allegedly) the passports or birth certificates were altered (re-issued) with birthdays that would make them eligible.
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LAD
07-27-2005 2:51 pm
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K ARMUGAM
FULLY AGREE WITH WELL KNOWN COLOMUNIST ARMUGAM THAT BATRA IS WASHING DIRTY LINEN IN PUBLIC TO FURTEHR HIS CAUSE AGAINST GILL. WHILE HIS APPROACH IS IN BAD TASTE IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT INDIA FIELDED FEW OVERAGE PLAYERS NOW AND EARLIER. MR ARMUGAM IS WRONG IN SAYING PLAYERS AGES ARE GENUINE AND I AM SUPRISED THAT A PERSON OF HIS REPUTE AND CLOSENESS TO INDIAN HOCKEY SAYS THIS.
HOCKEYMAN, I AM HAPPY I TOUCHED A CORD IN YOU. YOUR REPLY SOUNDS SARCASTIC BUT I DO NOT EXPECT ANYTHING ELSE FROM A PERSON WHO KNOWS NOTHING REGARDING THE AGE ISSUE IN INDIAN HOCKEY. I DO NOT NEED TO BE IN HOSPITAL TO KNOW SOME PLAYERS BIRTH DATE AS I KNOW THEM PERSONALLY AND HAVE EVEN SPOKEN TO THEM AFTER THEIR RETURN FROM THE JWC. THEY ARE SCARED THE MATTER WILL BE INVESTIGATED FURTHER. MAYBE YOU WERE IN THE HOSPITAL AS DOCTOR I SUPPOSE. I WILL NOT COMMENT ON OTHER COUNTRIES AS I DO NOT HAVE PROOF OR KNOWLEDGE.
OTHER COUNTRIES MAY ALSO ENGAGE IN THIS PRACTICE AND I SUPPOSE YOU KNOW AS YOU WERE PRESENT THERE TOO DURING FORIEGN PLAYERS BIRTH'S. I AM VERY MUCH INDIAN AND CLOSELY CONNECTED TO HOCKEY. I HAVE EVEN LODGED PROTESTS REGARDING AGE TAMPERING AT THE LOCAL LEVEL WITH THE STATE ASSN. IT IS NOT MY JOB TO INVESTIGATE BUT I HAVE A RIGHT TO VOICE MY OPINION ON MATTERS I FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT AND HAVE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT. I SUPPOSE IT IS ALL WE CAN DO AND I MUST THANK PLANET FIELD FOR THIS INTERACTIVE FORUM.
GROW UP HOCKEYMAN FACTS ARE FACTS AND FICTION IS FICTION. I DO HOWEVER APPRECIATE YOUR PASSION FOR INDIAN HOCKEY AND WILL STAND SHOULDER TO SHOULDER WITH YOU TO PROMOTE OUR NATIONAL GAME.
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chamberlin
07-27-2005 8:52 pm
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overage
most of the people in india are born at home, so accurate age some times hard to get ,only Bone test can determine if he is under or over 21?
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Uknow
07-27-2005 9:07 pm
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Why knock Batra?
Let there be a full investigation with an independent auditor, and have the documents posted on a website. Shouldn't take long to do so.
Knocking Batra and questioning his motivation and timing is a distraction. This should not be about personalities. May be he is an idiot may be not, what he said was what this should be about..
If there is wrong doing, and that is a big IF, yet to be proven, I still wouldn't blame the players (at least not completely,maybe they have been pressured and lacked the guts to stand up ...and act their age!). I would blame the officials, who you would think should resign. Of course they will always say that they were not aware of all this "new" evidence that proved the palyers were overage.
If there was wrong doing, I wouldn't be suprised. Was India the only team with overage players, unlikely.
But this should be publicly investigated for the pride of the country, no?
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Target
07-28-2005 9:09 am
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Well
Well all said and gone in the recycle bin.
When india is going to announce the team...............???????/
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Ritesh
07-30-2005 5:20 am
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Why is Batra raising the issue only now ? If players in this team were overage, why didn't he raise them when they won the u-19 tourney inm KL 2 years ago or the u-21 Asia Cup a year ago ?
Vivek Gupta, who according to Batra is 24 was in both those teams !!!!.
I smell nepotism here - it is well known that Batra has been eyeing the top job in Indian hockey for a while.
As I've said before, I'am amazed people are willing to jump to conclusions based on the allegation of one person. There is such a thing as the oether side of the coin.
If India are indeed age cheating at u-21 level, then some concrete proof needs to be found. That is only reasonable.
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Dutch supporter
07-31-2005 6:26 am
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not blaming India
in my opinion it is stupid to blame a nation for things several IHF-officials have done... And it is known in the international hockey scene, that age-manipulations have been done for other U21 WCs in the past, not only by Indian officials. I never heared about Mr. Batra in the past, but i heared a lot about Mr. Gil. I think, as long as IHF is under his guidance, such things will happen. But would Mr. Batra be better? The way he dealt with this story makes me feel "it would not...". I feel sorry for this great hockey nation India, that the sport is not under the lead of honorable persons, but under the lead of self-interested politicians...
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V. Anto
12-30-2005 7:19 am
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Re: Age of players are genuine
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by K. Arumugam [/i]
[B]Dear Friends
Batra is hell bent on spoiling the image of Gill. There is a nation wide anger on the way mr. gill runs the hockey affairs, which Batra wants to harness. But to drag the players to score a point agaisnt gill is not right one. Players' age are genuine. I do not know how some one who lived in India saying that changing date of birth is easy here. My reactin to this is , it is a joke. It is always easy to say negative things, but ultimately truth prevails.
I only pity on players who worked at least four continuous months in practice camps and finsihed a creditable fourth in a field of 16.
There is one player called P.R. Sreejesh, an up coming goalkeper. He is now a 11th class student. His age is 16. he was one of the finds of the PHL. What's wrong if Harendera says he will play one more Junior World Cup. This is actually one of my conerns to IHF why to bring too young people into the national scene. When Jugran made the international senior grade he was below 18, and Punjab police gave him a job asking him to join once he attains the age of 18.
For heavens sake, don't find fault with anything that is Indian. Letting down India is, may I say, letting down hockey.
[/B][/QUOTE]:)
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V. Anto
12-30-2005 7:37 am
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catch them young....... stop shouting
thanks Arumugam
i quite enjoyed that "indianness"factor.
nothing can change India"s ethos in the world league of hockey for well over 7 decades. the screw ups started in the late seventies the moment we won the world cup in 1975.
i watched the Bombay world cup in 1982 and the umpiring standards were the pits.......... a dutch goalie against India squats on the ball for over 3 seconds and the umpire doesnt care...... any other team would have got a penalty stroke.
the five sticks rule was used selectively against India. the scoop was allowed for all India"s oppenents but whever an Indian scooped the ball , it was termed DANGEROUS PLAY !!!!!!!
PENALTY CORNER was a selective weapon used by the umpires to brow-beat the poor , docile Indians....... is a different matter that India"s conversions were the lowest among all the teams. and with Paul Litjens (holland) and Craig Davies(australia) firing on all cylinders, a penalty corner was as good as a field goal.
gaol keeping by India"s Negi was at its worst , so also the defender S.S.sodhi who allowed that crucial goal to be scored by Peter Hazlehurst (australia) in india"s last league match.
UMPIRING, thy name is RACISM........
instead of shouting myself hoarse about politics in the IHF , I have started a small hockey academy in a semi-rural school here in coimbatore for the age group 8 to 13 years. its a big hit and it was inaugurated by the father of coimbatore hockey, the legendary COACH CLAUDIOS. hockey Olympian ADAM SINCLAIR (a native of coimbatore) inaugurated the academy , along with district chief COACH RAMAKRISHNAN last august.
by starting this academy , we plan to ensure the following:
1) that hockey does not die a natural death in India.
2) teach the national game (cricket is NOT the national game) to yougsters before they get corrupted by that cancer called cricket.
3) ensure we have suffiecient talent pools for a decade to come.
kindly send me your replies to my mail.
with best regards
V. Anto
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Ankit Desai
12-30-2005 3:05 pm
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Academy
Great job V Anto, keep it up . Looking forward to c some promising players from ur academy.
Best luck for ur academy.
Ankit Desai
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V. Anto
01-02-2006 5:55 am
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hockey academy in coimbatore
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Anto
[B]Great job V Anto, keep it up . Looking forward to c some promising players from ur academy.
Best luck for ur academy.
Ankit Desai [/B][/QUOTE]:)
=========================================
dear Ankit
thanks a million for your encouragement to our fledgeling hockey academey here in remote coimbatore.
the spirit of hockey will never die in connosieurs of the game like us living and breathing the national spirit day in and day out.
for my son"s last birthday we brought him a junior hockey stick( he is only 6 years old)..... he thanked me for the hockey BAT.
I wish that people like you will visit our academy and give a few words of encouragement to the eager students..... do pass on this information to people living in and around coimbatore and chennai.
pls continue to stay in touch.
best regds
anto
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Ankit Desai
01-02-2006 11:23 am
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Hello
Dear V. Anto and Indian Hockey lovers,
The following statemnets are not to discourage you, they are just thoughts.
What are v going to do with such good academies and clubs while IHF is not going to select players from it or will not appreciate and encourage them?
The prime thing is to remove current office barreir. So lets find the way for that.
Anybody know about the election procedure of IHF and its sub state's faderations? The nation fedaration is elected by states' representatives, so I think the problem is ther within states rule. So, lets change the ruler of perticular state's . I think that what v can do. and gradually shift in IHF. :eek:
I know that ther is a case pending in the civil court about election issue , but i dont think anything gonna happen in this metter.
The more painful things is, even PM of India and President also washed their hand in this issue, than who else is ther in india that can help and save Hockey?
Ankit Desai
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V. Anto
01-04-2006 7:16 am
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Re: hockey academy in coimbatore
hi ankit
i lived most of my life in chennai (then it was called MADRAS)
we never knew what an iternational hockey tournament was till the current office bearers came along....... delhi used to be the power centre of hockey uptill then, maybe becos of the sardarjis (this has nothing to do with caste or commnunity, please)
jothi kumaran is a Madrasi, and i am proud to say that he has done India proud by shifting the power base to south india, becos INDIA HAS ALWAYS PRODUCED THE BEST HOCKEY TALENTS NOT ONLY FROM PUNJAB AND U.P. BUT ALSO FROM TAMILNADU, COORG, HYDERABAD , ETC.
when the last champions trophy in 1996 was held in chennai (the first time the trophy was played in india, ever) the delhi hockey association and Batra"s chamchas indulged in hooliganism and rowdism in front of the radhakrishnan stadium.......this was done to tarnish the image of jothi and his hardworking team who worked night and day behind the scenes to bring such a prestigious tournament to the birthplace of hockey .......INDIA.
The net result was to tarnish the image of india in front of all those foreign players and delegates.
so i have no sympathy for any BATRA or SHATRA and i hope he never comes back to IHF in my lifetime.
so ankit, my sincere suggestions is not to bring down the existing IHF setup, rather work to make it stronger to help redo india as a global power in hockey.
i am happy with gill (the tiger from punjab, who eradicated terrorism in punjab with an iron hand) and with jothi (he is not just a bank employee , he was a fullback with an awesome reputation in the bank team).
i dont want batra who is probably some gutter snipe politician bred on hate and revenge, without any knowledge of the game of hockey.
i am also confident that the hockey academy of coimbatore will bring out the best talents in the country in the same way the city brought out the talents of ADAM SINCLAIR the only player from tamilnadu (jothi did not fill up the team with his chamchas from tamilnadu or south india) in the current indian hockey team.
with warm regds
anto
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by V. Anto [/i]
[B]:)
=========================================
dear Ankit
thanks a million for your encouragement to our fledgeling hockey academey here in remote coimbatore.
the spirit of hockey will never die in connosieurs of the game like us living and breathing the national spirit day in and day out.
for my son"s last birthday we brought him a junior hockey stick( he is only 6 years old)..... he thanked me for the hockey BAT.
I wish that people like you will visit our academy and give a few words of encouragement to the eager students..... do pass on this information to people living in and around coimbatore and chennai.
pls continue to stay in touch.
best regds
anto [/B][/QUOTE]
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Ankit Desai
01-11-2006 8:21 pm
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?????
Dear V. Anto,
Than wt do u think wts the reason
for failoure for at least 2 decades?
The way IHF is working, like 4-5 coach in last 4 years and no wonder if Rajinder Jr. will be shacked after PHL ?!?!?!?
No proper plans? (as many international foreign coaches said so and well as no need for any clarification for this question)
Not proper treatment for players at camps as well as big tournaments like Olympics?
And still ur supporting Jyothikumar and Gill.
??????????
STRANGE is the word for .....
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V. Anto
01-12-2006 12:16 am
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remembering Cedric , the coach.
dear Ankit
i certainly agree wth u in terms of the indian team"s recent outputs in international tourneys like the olympics, world cup, champions trophy, etc.
Yes, the showing in last 10 years (the Gill - Jothi period) has certainly not been very encouraging.
one of the best hockey coaches in India we had was Cedric D"Souza. i have personally seen him coach the team in Chennai and the motivation of the team for both the champion"s trophy and the Atlanta Olympics (1996) was at its peak.
the fact that the team did well till the final stages in the champions trophy in chennai and then screwed up at the atlanta olympics is now history........... CAN WE PUT THE BLAME ON CEDRIC ??? DID HE ASK THE PLAYERS TO SCREW UP ??? WHAT WAS MUKESH KUMAR (THE HYDERABADI) DOING MUFFING UP EASY LAYUPS INSIDE THE D-CIRCLE ?? THE NORMALLY RELIABLE RAMANDEEP SINGH WAS A SHADOW OF HIS NORMAL SELF ESPECIALLY IN CRUCIAL MATCHES. DHANRAJ PILLAY (THE MADRASI FROM MUMBAI) WAS FIRING ONLY ON HALF HIS CYLINDERS , ALTHOUGH HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE INDIA"S GIANT KILLER. WE SOUPED UP OUR FIRST MATCH AGAINST ARGENTINA AND FROM THEN ON IT WAS A NIGHTMARE ALL THE WAY IN FARAWAY ATLANTA. BELIEVE IT OR NOT...... THE ENTIRE WORLD HOCKEY FRATERNITY THOUGHT THAT INDIA WAS THE FAVOURITE TO WIN THE ATLANTA OLYMPICS GIVEN HER EXCELLENT PERFORMANCES IN THE RUNUP TOURNAMENTS JUST BEFORE ATLANTA.
that cedric was sacked inspite of being such an inspiration and a great coach is now history. certainly the present IHF management is guilty of changing players and coaches like they change thier underwear everyday. certainly they have nothing to show in terms of performance except the Asian Games 2002 and the world junior cup 2000.
only direct intervention by the President and prime-minister of India can save hockey in India.
best wishes for the Pongal season ahead.
V. Anto
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