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observer
06-01-2005 3:36 am
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England are GB
Congratulations to Scotland and Wales who, by refusing to endorse a four year GB programme, have just kissed goodbye to any of their players making Beijing. Why would a GB coach choose a scottish or welsh player when it was an England team who qualify. Shameful and shortsighted.
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GB Supporter
06-01-2005 3:25 pm
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Get your facts right
England have been the nominated country for the last two OG's at least. Wales and Scotland had players in Sydney and Athens. I am sure that the GB coaches will select the squad that gives them the best chance of success regardless of which Home Nation the players represent. Why would they do otherwise?
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scot
06-03-2005 5:18 am
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observer
yes, you are correct. it would be shameful and shortsighted not to include Scottish or Welsh players if they are good enough.
if a four year GB programme had taken place there would be less people playing higher level international hockey, less people developing & being seen at that level and less chance of countries developing towards that higher level. do we not want more people to play at an international level? in my opinion (and it's purely my OPINION) the olympics is every 4 years and while it is a showcase event it is not the be all and end all of hockey. it isn't even the most competative tournament we participate in. we have to develop to get to that level and we cant do that without developing a large pool of international players from all countries. i dont want want to start a big debate about this again, as it is irrelevant now. good luck to England with this programme.
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short sighted
06-03-2005 5:20 am
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england are GB
fr ur info, the only woman to go to the olympics from Britain in hockey was a scot. gt over yourself!
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to the scot
06-03-2005 7:32 am
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Is participation more important than performance? Participation happens in primary schools to give people opportunities, not in the Olympics
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Administrator
06-05-2005 4:00 am
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Funding
You are all missing the point !!. Hockey versus all the other sports receives the lowest funding. Example ABA (boxing) received £5 million and only produced one fighter in Athens.
We must have a bunch of complete amateures running our sport if they can only negotiate a pittance in terms of funding versus other sporting bodies.
Lets clear them out and get new blood in who have the right and proven credentials. I bet you a pound to a penny that the self appointed 1988 club members were involved in this and didn't do their homework !!.
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scot
06-06-2005 9:44 am
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to the scot
I think participation and performance need each other (i'm not sure of the Stats but when GB men won gold there was a considerable uptake in hockey.)
i appreciate your point but i'm not talking about school level (although, if we didn't have school level we'd run out of players pretty quickly!). i'm talking about international level (elite level?).
by cutting the numbers that participate at this level we reduce our pool of players to select from AND we reduce the level of players abilities and international experinece (due to lack of experience at this level.) i'm not sure how we can improve our game by doing this. i know GB is in a very unique situation as we're not allowed to compete as individual nations but in a way it gives us more to strive towards, not just playing for Scotland (England or Wales) but for GB.
i say again, the olympics is every 4 years and not the only tournament in hockey.
one other thing - i thought that the olympic ethos was built around participation as well as performance ???
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Out of interest
06-07-2005 1:49 pm
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Get your facts right
Somebody has their facts wrong yet again. In 1992 Helen Morgan from WALES won a bronze medal at the Barcelona OG's!
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short sighted
06-08-2005 4:16 am
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i mnt Athens. thrs been scots in all the teams that went to olympics. this time thr was no team. but there was a scot representing gb hockey.
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Bonza mate
06-08-2005 7:27 am
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SCOT
Are you joking!!! In respect of the Olympics, quote: 'it even isn't the most competitive tournament we compete in'. Well you (scotland) don't compete in it mate but you have obviously never even got close to an Olympics. Ask any international player or coach what is the hardest gold medal to win, they certainly won't tell you the Celtic Cup or Division 2 Europeans. By all means have your opinion but get with the program sunshine. Down here we're in it to win gold medals every olympics and we're actually doing okay. What's your agenda, everyone gets a go and when i retire I can say i got 50 caps for Scotland, was once in the 12th best team in the world and won a couple of CC medals. Whoopie, bring on Beijing!!!
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TinTin
06-08-2005 7:56 am
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Listen to you all.
No wonder we dont win medals.
You should always aspire to play at the top level of your game (5thXi hockey occurs in your 40's)
Club hockey - be your national champion and play in Europe
International - has got to be the Olympics!
It is the same for every sport - why is hockey any different!
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dita
06-08-2005 8:14 am
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re observer
an england team that qualified?!The men had 3 scots and the women didnt even qualify wat does that say about the women if they were all english then eh!!if the coach has any sense they will select the best players for best success no matter where they are from thats what its about isnt it?
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ditto
06-08-2005 11:34 am
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re: dita
The coach needs is best players to be together in a 4 year program like every other nation. There's no point only coming together for 9 months as it's proven not to work. With the England team training together for four years I can't see Lee picking outside his own squad. Chin up Jocks
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GB follower
06-08-2005 5:19 pm
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Instead of everybody moaning about the political make-up of GB, can I suggest that a starting point for a successful GB programme (regardless of the structure underneath) would be for a top quality coaching/management team be appointed as soon as possible for men and women so that the coaches can get on with the process of identifying and developing players for 2008.
We don't need to join up, the old system can work if it is implemented properly with the right people appointed early enough. Picking Mike Hamilton, then realising that he wasn't up to scratch and apoointing Leeboy with 5 months to go was never going to work. Can't blame Jason for how it all panned out!
I am sure that we can have a decent programme if the GB board get on with the job of getting the staff in place soon! Can't see any home country holding a player back from GB honours. We manage (just) to juggle club and country issues, so sure that we can juggle Sco/Wal/Eng and GB.
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scot
06-09-2005 3:17 am
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bonza mate
obviously no point in having a constructive discussion.
more challenging games than olympics.... champions trophy
i'm not slateing the olympics, far from it, just stating that it's not the only tournament in hockey. i never said that Celtic Cup is all we should aspire to, if you read my comments properly you'd understand that. what i'm saying is we shouldn't drastically reduce the number of INTERNATIONAL players for the benefit of one (albeit very important, and life changing for the people involved) showcase event. we mustn't let our hearts rule our head.
and no, i've not been to the olympics, but that doesn't make my opinion less valid. if the propesed structure had gone ahead i would have no chance.
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Bonza mate
06-09-2005 9:25 am
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To scot
In Oz we all have the same passport and yet we get to have one team compete internationally. Now wouldn't it be nice if we could play internationally as new south wales, Queensland, victoria, West Australia etc. by my reckoning you guys are all citizens of one country, under British passports. Is that not right? There are a hell of a lot of Australian players that miss out on representing their country because they don't have the luxury of the Gb arrangement whereby you get three times the representation and opportunity. I actaully don't understand how you get away with it and what Fih rationale is. Also with such a numbers advantage how come you arent very good? If my memory is correct you've one a gold medal (Gb) and a silver WC medal (England) in how many years of competition?
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P
06-09-2005 11:15 am
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Bonza mate - to much sport not enough schooling
England Wales Scotland N.Ireland all countries in their own right.
NSW, Queensland, Victoria are states which make up a country called Australia - I think you once lived their??
For historical reasons the 4 COUNTRIES mentioned join together to perform as GB in the Olympics. What should happen is we split the GB setup and allow each country to perform under their own flag.
Do you understand now Dingo??
If you think about it we actually reduce the amount of people who could go to the Olympics by competing as GB thus helping your fellow countrymen travel the world.
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P's teacher
06-10-2005 2:26 am
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toO much sport not enough schooling
Back to school for you matey!
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scot
06-10-2005 3:23 am
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P & bonza mate
thank you P. i also agree with your comments re each country performing in their own right. from what i can gather most of the Scots who voted (with the exception of one or two in the GB squad) think the same way. we may not be good enough to qualify yet but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
to bonza mate, so you're better than us. this doesn't mean you are right. judging by your comments you don't actually have a clue as to the issues we're discussing. i'm not sure why there's any less Australians getting the chance to represent their country because GB compete in one tournament every fours years (because they are not allowed to compete as individual countires).
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donut
06-10-2005 3:55 am
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P
P, you have missed the point that our ozzie friend made.... what does it say on your passport.... i think you will find it's a british passport. So to the rest of the world looking in we are all the same and it's quite simple, we should all be playing for the same team.
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Philosopher
06-10-2005 5:21 am
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GB
Two things:
1 - those who can't tell the difference between "their" and "there" should hardly be criticising anybody else's schooling (P to bonza mate above).
2 - how does combining as GB for world cups, the Olympics and champions' trophy/challenge deny Scotland and Wales' players the opportunities to play international hockey at the Europeans, Commonwealth Games and even the Celtic Cup? As far as I can see, it would bring ADDED opportunities to those good players who will otherwise be denied access to these competitions by the mediocrity around them. Or do you really think Scotland/Wales will qualify for a 12-team world cup?
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Kangaroo
06-10-2005 10:56 am
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England - GB
Call yourselves what you like, you got no blo*dy chance of winning anything anyway, you are all just a bunch of moaning poms.
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shinpads
06-11-2005 4:25 am
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Reality First
In this debate there are several issues coming out that really are the crux of the problem.
1. Every country has it's own issues regarding eligibility and selection and no amount of sniping by those outside a specific country or in most cases even from those within will ever change that.
2. Great Britain sport (and specificially Hockey) are at present generally mismanaged due to the factionalism and irrational expecations put on sport by the "thinkers" in the myriad of government sponsored agencies supposedly supporting sport in this country.. but that being said there does seem to be some good changes ahead.
3 There are too many unprofessional (even some so called "professionals" fit this criteria) people running our sport and in order to improve world wide the sport needs to become more business and reality orientated.
4. Hockey in the UK really needs to look outside their own little box and see what the sport is failing to achieve at present and try not to live on long past glories.
5. Regarding the Aussie's comments, which in the main are reasonably accurate if not too well written, it is without a doubt that most of the Australian state squads would win most games against any of the Home Countries and the current GB squads (men and women) and the question is ...why????
Easy answer there as Australia learnt from mistakes of the 1970's and developed a functional system aimed at developing playing and more importantly coaching talent at the regional level that can fit into the national program relatively easily. Of course there are political issues but mostly it works.
6. Sacking Barry Dancer when you did showed how narrow focussed Hockey in the UK is.
7. Employing Chris Spice showed how dumb your administrators at the time were!!!!
Last point.. If you call an Aussie a "Dingo" to his face it would be wise to make sure you have an advance booking to your dentist.
Especially with the state of the UK NHS system.
Be careful there as there some things we racist, sexist,selfish, loudmouthed, egotistical, Fosters swilling yobs from downunder really get p***ed orf about.
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Philosopher
06-12-2005 3:44 am
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PS
Perhaps we should look at the British Lions ... great concept, but even the great Sir Clive seems to be struggling to combine the English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish squads without decent preparation.
Sure, the Lions (and GB hockey) have a record of occasional one-off triumphs, but neither have managed to consistently trouble the world's best teams - and, unlike GB hockey, the Lions get to play the best-of-three!
If the Lions, with their individually excellent squads, cannot combine in a few months, why would we think hockey would be in a better situation? They may have been reasonably competitive in days of yore, but I think they will get less and less competitive as national interests over-ride the combined cause.
Unfortunately, politicians and professionals in hockey who want to protect their trips, their jobs and their blazers play the "Braveheart" card, sucking in the clubs and players (though not the GB ones) who believe they are protecting their national interests when all they are actually protecting are the administrators around them.
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Skippy
06-13-2005 5:23 am
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Kangaroo
I agree with your posting about the moaning poms. But also look at the cowboys (self appointed 1988 club) running their sport in England most of which couldn't organise a kids tea party. What coaching qualifications does David Faulkner have in his role as performance director, this is just another of the examples of jobs for the 1988 self elected 1988 club members.
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Bonza mate
06-14-2005 7:53 am
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Sorry been off roo shooting... thanks for enlightening me about the scotland and Wales being countries, but my passport question still remains. You are all British and will be until you devolve (is that the word?). Why are you scared to compete as great Britain all the time?
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x26
