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Fed Up
04-09-2005 3:41 pm
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Lee
Why is Lee such a blamer, he picked the side he must take some responsibility. He drops his senior players and complains that the youngsters are not up to speed. Some one please tell this whinger to grow up.
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Belgian Waffel
04-09-2005 5:17 pm
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That Lee seems to be a bad loser. Better luck next time, pommies !
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??
04-09-2005 7:43 pm
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Sticking up for Leeboy!
Fed up, I'm willing to bet a large amount of money that you would be blaming some one if you put a goal in the net and the umpire said it hit a post! And as for five flicks going in the same spot then I would be questioning the keeper as well! Leeboy is trying to pick a young side so they can play together for a longer period and hopefully get us back up the rankings, although the GB argument will ruin any current hopes. He has said it won't be easy and the learning curve will be steep but that doesn't mean some people don't need the odd reminder of what is expected!
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gb
04-10-2005 1:39 am
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agree with fed up
Exactly, Lee picked the team, Lee sorted out the corner defence and offence, the buck stops with him. They may have done some corner sessions but before they left that included players not even in the squad. To blame umpires is just pathetic, he continues to make us the laughing stock.
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Realist
04-10-2005 3:06 am
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This is internatioal Hockey! Lee does'nt need to grow up it seems you need to realise this is'nt jolly Hockey sticks. If they conceded 5 PC's then who is to blame.........The PC defence and GK. Lee seems to be a realist that demands high standards and does not blame it on bad luck.........welcome to international Hockey 'Fed Up'
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Con-man
04-10-2005 3:32 am
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Ceefax
The reports on TV and ob the BBC website initially said that England had won the game! Very poor reporting
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the nevilles
04-10-2005 2:26 pm
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Lee Out
'Fed Up' has spoken alot of sense. Perhaps it is about time Lee shut up and packed his bags. He never seems to take any blame and puts it all on the players shoulders. I feel it is time to look for a new coach who has achieved things! The best coaches around at the moment appear to be the cannock brothers. As a reading supporter this is hard to say but they have performed exceptionally well this year and surely deserve the opportunity! Lee will not leave as i'm sure the hockey association will not be able to fund his departure. Does anyone know who else was coaching out in egypt?
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leeroy
04-10-2005 8:21 pm
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rubbish
oih leeboy dont blame the players and take some responsibilty for yourself! bad olympics i thought u told the players that it was ur style of playing and u woulld take the blame when it went wrong...and here we r seeing the same problems from a coach who speaks the same old story and blames the players...a good corner flicker will score chances if he gets them in a game! look at your defenders who gives them away...
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leeroy
04-10-2005 8:22 pm
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cheltenham
get hendi and tripod in goal!
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Peter Munsing
04-10-2005 8:55 pm
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Let's hear more from the Belgians
What do you attribute your team's steady rise to? You did really well in the indoors a couple of years ago, and this match shows that it's carried over --so what's happening in Belgium we can learn from?
Congratulations, and good luck!
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Basil Brush
04-10-2005 10:36 pm
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Australia calling
Having read the article, I have a few things to say.
Any coach would be upset with an umpiring decision that affected the outcome of the match just as a player would but its not the first time it has happened. In the Olympics in Atlanta Holland played Malaysia and the game was held to a 0-0 draw. The Dutch actually did score from a deflection which hit the back crossbar and some how came back out again. The umpire called it as off the front bar. Coaches need to accept the fact that you cannot whinge about one decision that cost them the game when they probably had ample opportunities to convert in other ways but didnt. The coach picks the side and they play to the best of their ability. If they dont you replace them with someone who does give 110%. Agreeably, the real issue is the PC defence and the GK. If all the flicks went in the same spot then you have to ask the question what were they thinking and why was he allowed the opportunity to flick that many times?
All that aside. I have one last question. How can I get hold of this game on tape or DVD so I can view it for the setplays etc?
Cheers from Australia
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Coach
04-11-2005 1:48 am
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England Performance
All the emphasis appears to be spent on scoring short corners and whilst this area of the game is important, it is also a basic part of the game to score open play goals. I therefore suggest Lee selects proven open play goal scorers from nat div 1 and yes div 2.
The suggestion in earlier postings that Lee should go is utterly absurd, as he is the best British born coach in the country, but I question his selections and feel he should open the door to other 1st & 2nd team nat league players and be seen to do so, this way he appeases all the knockers and if it doesn't happen he has lost nothing, as the team Lee selected and who went to Egypt came 4th winning only 2 games against very average international oposition, so they can't be called successful selections.
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Belgium
04-11-2005 2:11 am
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Lee should be severely questioned. We let 6 goals in against Belgium not a world super power.
Can someone explain to me something. Currently 3 European sides are in the top 4 in the world. Recently English clubs have been competing well in European competition (Cannock 2 silvers, Reading Gold and Silver x2?). Why is it when our clubs can beat the best in the world our National side is the worst in living memory. And I've lived for a long time!
Experimentation and youth are poor excuses to a poor performance. International sport is about results.
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stu
04-11-2005 3:21 am
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Too much reliance on Simon Mason in the past - he was exceptional and set a high standard. GK is a specialist sport in itself -in Pakistan//Australia/Holland/Germany/South Africa great emphasis is placed on selective weekly training for their GKS. Our keepers need to train regularly with drag flickers of the calibre of Lombi and Abbas if they are to reach the next level -
we have the talent and good GK coaches but are we willing to spend the money.
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humpy
04-11-2005 4:04 am
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He cant win!
If you let 5 shorts in the SAME place, no matter what level or age you are, questions need to asked. How can you blame lee boy for that? If you score a perfectly good goal and it is disregarded as hitting the post i think you can feel a bit aggreavied. People said England had to pick young players so we can build a potentially successful olympic team and when he does that, he gets abused.
It has been good to see him watching some prem.2 games this season as well.
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Supporter
04-11-2005 4:26 am
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Nick Taylor is a world class keeper who has consistently shown in the league for the past two or three seasons with Guildford that he is a cut above the rest. Incredible that he has not been selected ahead of Ebsworth and Brothers.
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DD
04-11-2005 6:53 am
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Theres always going to be a learning curve with young players in the team - let them learn from their mistakes. The Belgiums might not be a great international side but they have taken a similar approach - using several youngsters and given them loads of games over a year or so and it seems to be working as they are definitely improving.
As for Lee's comments I think it's constructive critism as he's urging his team to step up to new standards - and I think anyone would be annoyed if the ball bounced back out and it was disallowed!
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Keepers
04-11-2005 7:17 am
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Leave it
Ebsworth has been exceptional - stop knocking on about one game. Mason was not such a fantastic keeper - look at the results. I beleive he conceeded 8 against Pakistan in the Olympics, and he was world classs at diving and trying to save a shot after it had gone past him. Yes, he was a good shot stopper, but corner specialists train to score EVERY time they flick. With the bowed sticks and deception generated, being in goal is not an easy task. with the rule change on sticks being implemented, I think you will see that Ebsworth is a worthy #1 - a shot stopper and intelligent communicator.
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English Lion
04-11-2005 8:03 am
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you whingers make me sick. Lee is a class coach and given time to develop this could be a class team. you people have no idea what international sport is about. you complain when the squad is too old- then you complain when it is too young. do you really expect a young team to immediately start winning international tournaments- of course not it will take time. and as for lee been a bad loser- do you expect him to enjoy losing and pretend it doesnt matter you idiots. however i do agree that it was lee's fault that the english conceded 5 short corners- what he should of done was padded up and defended them himself. after all its all his fault...or maybe in the world of international sport he is trying to make players take more responsibility for themselves- im sure ive heard about some top teams doing that. above all why dont you traiters get behind the team and give them a bit of support.
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Andy
04-11-2005 8:06 am
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Not knocking Ebsworth or Brothers but if we don't have the drag flickers who can they train against. Also disagree about Mason - Pakistan had Abbas - exceptional at shorts, and Mason was one of the best in the world and a hard act to follow.
Still say give Lee a chance to prove himself - it's a young squad so give them time. As for Nick Taylor, he's good, but doesn't he now have a full time job???? And wht happend to James Fair.
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Reality
04-11-2005 8:15 am
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England
FACTS
- Jason Lee is unquestionably the best English. ("1998 club" get rid of him at your peril, as he could walk into a number of international teams as a coach).
- Jason Lee has a boss (D.F. performance director) who is totally under qualified for the position, but he is a "1998 club member" so no surprises he got the job.
- Everybody will continue to persecute Jason Lee until England have a sucessful team.
- Every true blooded English hockey player has an opinion regarding the England team selection, and this site gives everybody the chance to air their views.
- No way by any stretch of the imagination can Jason Lee have any positives from this set of matches in Egypt.
SOLUTIONS
- Jason. "Listen and be seen to listen".
- Jason. "Be transparent in everything you do".
- Jason. "Don't be too single minded, and look at other players who are doing the job for club sides".
- Jason. Issue a news report once a month and highlight which players have been selected for training sessions and Internationals and the rationale behind your thought process for selecting these guys and the non selection of those who don't make it from the training squads. (those ivolved are all big boys and should have no issues with this type of open debate)
- Jason. Make sure you don't get trapped in the same thought process as the "1988 club self appointed hockey management team", who believe they know it all, which of course they don't, as they know bugger all about running our sport. "They are only in it for the self gratification and any gongs which might come their way from BUCK HOUSE".
- Jason. I believe if you are transparent and explain your selection and the rationale, there would be significantly different postings on this sight, plus you would gain respect from the masses, which your "1988 club bosses will never achieve in a million years".
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Mini arrows
04-11-2005 8:26 am
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Squad selection
Just a quick question: Why is it that there are two sides in this country (Reading & Cannock) who are significantly better than every other side yet Lee continues to pick players from other clubs? As for those who are saying pick players from Div 2, are you having a laugh?
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EGYPT
04-11-2005 8:33 am
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Disallowed Goal
After the match I asked three of the camera men from three different teams who were videoing the match and all three said the ball clearly hit the post.
It also certainly looked that way from the stands - the direction the ball bounced back hard into play.
And the nets were loose not tightly fitting.
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Policeman
04-11-2005 8:36 am
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STU
Have you been hibernating over the winter ? Spend money, what bloody money have our association got. Sport England cut our grant by nearly £2m. & our new performance director David Falkner doesn't come cheap.
I'm am fu-ked off with the way in which those who play and support the game are kept in the dark, a bit like growing mushrooms, but every now & then, someone opens the door and covers you in sh-t and your meant to be grateful.
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Fed UP
04-11-2005 8:43 am
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Comments
My comments were based on Lee publicly criticizing his players, with reasons which are in his control. Don?t forget this is the man who called the GB side gutless on National Radio. Lee may be a good coach, but if he loses the players respect at this early stage he will never make it.
What?s more interesting is why has Whittle gone, can anyone shed any light?
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Peeeeed OFF!!!!!
04-11-2005 9:49 am
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English hockey
English hockey will never be successful at anytime in the next decade. The whole structure is wrong, the slection process is inept and sometimes a joke. Yes, Hockey has rapidly changed over the years, with fitness playing a pivitol role in the sport. However, just because more and more international teams are getting fitter and fitter it doesn't stop them learning skills. I am not even on about the basic skills ie. hitting, stopping and passing (English players can do this all do if they had to, and could quite easily pass and move all day). The problem encounted is when the team reaches the opposing 25 yard line, the ball is either smashed into the D or passed back to the sweeper. In today's game, there is still a huge part for Skill to affect the outcomes of games.
I read somewhere that team GB aimed to be the fittest team at the Olympics, this tatic obviously worked wonders as the team done so well!!! How anyone can expect to train a team of players in sunny Britain and then expect them to outpace and outplay teams from hotter climates, who are used to the hot/humid climates ie. India, Egypt, Pakistan, Australia etc. It beggers belief that team GB even qualified for the games.
We have got an excellent group of young, skillfull players coming through and I only hope they are allowed to use there skill as they get older and aren't forced to run round like headless chickens for percentage hockey.
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one point
04-11-2005 9:59 am
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mini arrows
Tindall was selected from div 2 and with some success if his goals are anything to go by. Surely Jason Lee wasn't having a laugh when he selected James from Old Georgians.
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Nat 1st Div coach
04-11-2005 10:10 am
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Jason Lee
I agree in part with Reality posting. Jason Lee is the best coach in britian. I also agree he should look at those players performing for their clubs week in and week out, as this gives a clear picture of who's on their game.
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Interested Party
04-11-2005 10:12 am
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FED UP
Whittle went because he was found wanting.
Lets start again, he was no bloody good.
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Dogga
04-11-2005 10:14 am
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Mini Arrows
Cannock and Reading are not significantly better than the others. Cannock are a strong team but rely on a few individuals e.g. Middleton. Also Reading are on the way down. They r not a patch on what they used to b. Since they lost senior Mantell to injury they have looked weak. Loughborough r are the best team in the country between both 25's. They play exciting attacking hockey, if they improve their convertion rate of chances created (cos they produce the most out of any team in the country) they would easily b the beat team in the country. Give it a few seasons, Loughborough will boss the league and there will only b one team worth looking at. Come on the MIGHTY!!!!
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Hampstead & Westminster
04-11-2005 10:31 am
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Mini Arrows
Next your be telling us to pick Turk from Reading who couldn't hold a place in our Hampstead & Westminster 2nd team so went to Reading.
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Fed Up
04-11-2005 11:50 am
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Whittle
Thanks for clearing that up, I heard it was because he stood up to Lee over selection before, then did a told you so, called Lee's bluff and had to walk.
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Younsters
04-11-2005 12:44 pm
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Blaming the youth
A lot of people seem to be blaming Lee in his selection of younger players. I think this is the best way forward, obviously they are not going to win straight away, but clearly having a team with older players hasn't worked, i.e the Olympics, we have to start somewhere and if these young players continue to play togther then in a few years England/GB should hopfully be back on the hockey map!
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player
04-11-2005 2:34 pm
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follow football!
the last england team - the starting X1 were based around 4 clubs - Man Utd/Liverpool/Chelsea (i say based, not EXCLUSIVE)
Dutch football teams - Ajax/PSV/Feyernood(primarily)
English Hockey - 3 from here. 4 from there, couple from here, 2 from there!
Our league system is flawed - so why not base the teams aroound the succesful outfits with PROVEN ability - Cannock/Reading/Students/Surbiton
Thats NOT saying if u wanna play international then join these teams - thats saying we need a firm foundation set up and i believe that these clubs have it - they have domestic success and European medals in hand!
If someone thinks its wrong then may i direct your attention to past selection policies to medal success. I think you'll find NO success at all.
And comparisons should not be made to other European countries and their selection form clubs - WE ARE NOT THEM - so we must use what we have by NOT copying their systems but making sure ours works before anything else.
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Man of Glass
04-11-2005 3:33 pm
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Structure of English Hockey
The players are obviously there in the English game otherwise Cannock and Reading wouldn't be competing with the Dutch, Germans and Spanish in Europe. So why weren't more of their players in the team?!?
The ridiculous contention that players would benefit from training together and playing friendlies rather than playing competitive matches to the detrement of the National League (which is our shop window to the youngsters and grass roots England Hockey!) was disproved by the Olympic debacle. And now, those players who are with the top 4 sides will come back to play 3 games in 3 days in the pointless playoffs! (Does anyone else think it unreasonable that the best team over 22 matches goes into the European Cup and the Cup Winners to the Cup Winners Cup?) Reading must be thrilled with that preparation for Europe after the injuries they've had and Cannock are apparently still recovering from their exertions at Easter.
Lets have the best players from the best teams in the national side, and a simple naional league structure that doesn't overstress our best athletes and gives the kids a chance to see the best players. After all, look at what's happened to the Rugby Union boys with all their matches these days and how did their structure come about...
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Lizzie
04-11-2005 5:31 pm
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David Whittle
Jolly good rumors there. Fed up, why do you take for granted what a lone anonymous poster says? He gave his personal opinion, clearly lacking any factual base.
David has been the England and GB manager for more than ten years, and he is almost 60 years old. Have you considered that he might just have gotten tired of it?
And I certainly do disagree with him having been no good. Having met him and worked with him at several tournaments, I found him always dedicated and organised, and besides, I don't think they'd have kept him for a decade if he'd been no good. But since you're so smug, Interested Party, go ahead and apply for the job, and we'll see how good you are and how long you can stand it.
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whittler
04-11-2005 6:27 pm
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whittle
whittle has probably gone as the money has dried up so things wouldn't be quite so cosy anymore
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Interested party
04-12-2005 1:19 am
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Lizzie / D Wittle
I would like to apply as I am more qualified than any of those currently governing / running English hockey, but not being a member of the 1988 club, what chance do I have of even making the interview stage.
Just Look at how the new performance director was appointed.
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X
04-12-2005 4:32 am
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'Reality' and your "FACTS"
"- Jason Lee is unquestionably the best English. ("1998 club" get rid of him at your peril, as he could walk into a number of international teams as a coach)."
Based on what evidence and what past achievements as a coach?????!!!!!!
I agree with you regarding the '1988 club', the appointment of DF as performance director is quite unbelievable. However, although Jason may be a decent coach do you really think that he is the best english coach there is and that he would walk into any other international side as coach?
I think that you are getting a bit carried away there. I'm all for giving him a chance but its going to be hard enough for him in the job as it is without people making him out to be something he's not.
There has been a lot of criticism of DF being under qualified for the post of performance director, most of it justified, however people seem to forget the Jason came into the GB job based on very little experience as a coach, and just because he played at an Olympics that does not qualify him to coach at that level!
As an englishman, I wish him and the lads the very best but lets not get carried away. We haven't dropped to 10th in the world rankings by accident!
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TinTin
04-12-2005 10:39 am
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England Squad
Gk - Taylor (N)
RH - Jon Brown
CB- Todd R
CB- Gerrard
LH - Hawes
IR - West
CH - Kirkham
IL - Taylor
RW - Clarke
CF - Middleton
LW - Jones
Subs - Moore/Daly/Brothers/Pearn/
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An amused reader
04-12-2005 11:48 am
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all of it
Its amazing how a little website like this can turn the boldest of men into b*tching 16 year old girls!
I really do feel you need to stop spending your time reading this site and donate all of your distinguished knowledge to English Hockey!
Because its obviouis you are all successful hockey magicians and require a red carpet for your pathetic opinions!
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Rusty
04-13-2005 7:04 pm
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1988 club knocking.
I wonder why no-one has mentioned Sean Kerly?
A member of the so-dubbed '1988 Club' but who has forged his way into the upper echelons of the FIH.
Is that because he is ego-driven and trying to hold onto his 80's prestige?
No, its because he wants to make positive differences to the game.
Theres a lot of finger-pointing and the like going on here, the majority of it in the direction of the '1988 club's' camp - to which i would respond.
Have a look at New Zealand ; A hockey federation run by Ramesh Patel (a member of their 1976 club, if you will). They are happy to have a system run by an ex-international gold medal winner. Why are we so against it? Especially when you look at their recent results.
Arguably one of the more rapidly improving international teams of the last 5 years, look at the commonwealth games and the last olympics.
This is a team where the player have been pooled from the small number of hockey players in a country whose overall population is only a little over half the population of London!!
If they can 'box above their weight' so effetively maybe more time should be spent looking at the foundations countries like New Zealand or Belgium perhaps, have in place as they seem to be making positive forwards steps where English Hockey seems to be slumping by comparison.
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Wanabe Applicant "Canterbury"
04-14-2005 12:53 am
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RUSTY
What commercial skills does Kerly bring to the party !! "NONE" just like the rest of the self appointed 1988 club. Everybody would like to know what his job functions are, and how many $$$$$$ he will take out of the system.
Another club 1988 club member I bet who skeletons in the wardrobe.
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Unbelievable
04-14-2005 2:54 am
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Ask yourself this question:
Why has World Class Hockey Ltd not yet been integrated back into England Hockey Ltd?
The answer is 3 years of missing accounts and the slowly dawning realisation that no-one is sure where £3m of funding has gone.
Extremely worrying. This is what happens when the amateurs are left in control. Please let's get professional as soon as possible.
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Lizzie
04-14-2005 4:10 am
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Interested party
What a convenient excuse - you'll never have to prove anything, you can claim anything you want.
I am convinced you'd take England to a medal in the 2006 WC and the gold in Beijing, but hey, what can you do, they're just not letting you because you're not a member of the dubious 1988 club. It really is a shame.
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puzzled
04-14-2005 6:15 am
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drag flicks
As a coach I would be a bit annoyed if my keeper got beat 5 times in the same place - as for training - a bola ball machine firing hockey balls at about 100km/h is all it takes to improve your keepers reactions!!!!!!!!!!! With it firing top corner with ur keeper standing on opposite post - it does help. Doesn't match the disguise of international flickers but is a simple tool
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player
04-14-2005 6:34 am
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Rusty
New Zealand have a world class drag flicker so does Belgium, hockey is a pretty simple game, score corners and defend corners = win games.
The bit that goes on in the middle becomes less important if you only have to win corners and not create goal shots. You can win a corner in a crowded circle!
Look at Readings apparent drop in form, they are playing the same but have not got Mantell, Cannock have Ramsden. Loughborough arguably are the best team between the 25's but are rubbish at defending corners and hardly score from them.
The 88 club had Paul Barber, the 96 Olympic side had Callum Giles as did the 98 world cup. The game is not in total disarray we just need a world class corner outfit which will in turn improve our defence.
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Canterbury
04-14-2005 9:13 am
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Pies For England then.
He could drink for England too judging by his funnel performances at Easter.
And before everyone gets on their high horses about performance athletes, Robert Key was there too getting absolutely smashed. And no-one could ever accuse him of being a bit portly...
Oh wait a minute...
Pick your best current corner striker (Mathews), and work with Mantell, Daly and Dixon to make sure the next ten years are covered too.
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Rusty
04-14-2005 6:14 pm
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RE: Player - Class Drag-flicker
Yeah Shaw is an ok flicker, but not on a par with some of the others out there for consistency, Abbas, Taekema, Lombi, Elder.
Shaw often missed the most important flicks (Commonwealth Games, Oceania Cup) - he could never flick the pressure shots.
Phil Burrows would be the difference to me, he is a truly world class striker.
The '88 result was definately not the result of just Barber's efforts, it was a team contribution.
I take your point but are you really gonna argue the fact they are easily an equal team to England/GB now and pooling from such a smaller population? That was the point i was trying to make.
Clearly they are doing something right - you have to get the corner before you can convert it remember.
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performer
04-15-2005 4:28 am
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England seem to win a similar amount of corners to most other teams. Cannock score so many because they have flair players in the forward line that win so many. I believe Ramsden hasn't scored anywhere near as many in the second half of the season since Cannock have had a few injuries and players missing
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player
04-15-2005 5:43 am
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Shaw
Scored the crucial goal against India in the olympics.
But you strenghthen my point, you have quoted the best teams, who all have a corner man.
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mathews the answer
04-15-2005 9:15 am
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If we need a world class dragflicker why don't we pick mathews? he has proven himself in the english and dutch leagues to be one of the most prolific from the pc in the world.
also why has brimblecombe been overlooked? i have seen a number of games this season where he looked much better than jon brown
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where now?
04-16-2005 2:42 am
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Two points for field goal and one point for penalty corner goal?
OH!
and what about substitution at the Penalty Corner? Are the good drag flickers expected to be on the pitch for the whole game or should coaches just use the squad as they wish - rolling substitution as it was originally introduced
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Jess Dowsing
04-17-2005 3:57 am
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Mike Brimblecombe
I like Mike Brimblecombe, he's very nice.
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bloke
04-17-2005 12:17 pm
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Brimblecombe v Brown
Brown has to be the most overated player in England, he is rubbish. Brimblecombe is a class player with the heart of a mouse. Lee will only pick English lions, bit like the way he palyed, no real class just a fantastic work ethic, he will pick Peckett at right half before Crybabybecombe. Peckett, cant tackle cant pass but can run through or jump over walls.
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Hockey Observer
04-17-2005 10:37 pm
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Drag Flickers
Rusty you make some interesting comments re flickers and who is the best. I have no doubt that you have plenty of statistics to back your claims up ?? If not I shalll give you some.........From Athens..............Pakistan 45% pc conversion rate, Holland less than 20%..........Argentina 15%, Australia about 27%. That covers Abbas, Taekema, Lombi and Elder. New Zealand completed 41% and you think Shaw is an ok flicker !! Maybe you need to think about the whole corner battery. Sure Pakistan flick virtually every corner as do Holland. Argentina try but were worse than woeful in Athens. Australia have an excellent corner battery and score goals from many variations, you will remember the golden goal for gold was a drop left to Dwyer ( the pc Matty Smith used to score alot ). NZ also score from many variations. This happens because teams have a very good keeper who keeps the defence narrow and focussed on the flicker. Think about it. Teams are now very good at defending corners. Sure Abbas is a feak but no one else comes near to him.
Just to finish on Shaw did he not score 2 and lay off 2 in the semi final v Pakistan in Manchester. I think so. Sure he has missed a few, mainly against Australia I would add. He has also scored some big ones as mentioned above against India after the hooter in Athens. He also score 3 out of 4 against Australia in the first game of the Oceania Cup in Christchurch. He is young and I am sure we will se him back on the worlds stage come World Cup and then Beijing.
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brimblecombe
04-18-2005 4:51 am
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Brimblecombe
Brimblecombe will have a good chance to get in as he's from Loughborough. Look at players like Alexander who clearly aren't cut out for the highest level but who Lee continues to select, probably due to the Loughborough connection.
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bloke
04-18-2005 9:43 am
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really
not so sure, Alexander has the work ethic lee loves, brave, plays through injuries can run through walls. Would agree if Dancer was in charge Brimblecombe would be in.
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Landlord
04-18-2005 1:59 pm
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Mike Brimblecombe
I met him once and wasn't bowled over. As a young professional in London I have met players of real calibre and I can safely say that he doesn't meet my expectations. I spent a number of years at the pinnacle of English Hockey at Belper and not once did Brimblecombe stand-out. Although his balding scalp was of concern at such a young age. Perhaps along with the 'loughborough' connection he also has the 'bald' connection with Leeboy and Glenn Kirkham.
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Watcher
04-18-2005 2:42 pm
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Im pretty certain brimblecombe retired from international hockey a few months ago!????
Also, Haydn Shaw quit hockey to concentrate on his cricket (which he plays at national level) did'nt he?
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lufbra
04-19-2005 3:15 am
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watcher....why talk about stuff if you obv know nothing about it? mike hasnt retired at all. where did you get that from? your backside i imagine.
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idiot
04-19-2005 5:13 am
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watcher
that was bleby, a true lion
so what about shaw retiring, he still scored heeps of goals, which seems to be the point of this thread
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response to bloke
04-19-2005 8:17 am
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Jon Brown shouldnt be knocked. he played for a poor Loughts team for many years but shone through as a superb talent and excelled whilst others faltered. A move to reading and the first england caps proves his quality. he just needs to be exposed to top drawer training and the highest standards which will surely lead onto him being a welcome addition both now and in the future for the national team
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bloke
04-19-2005 10:40 am
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response
great, so you acknowledge he is no good now, and instead of giving someone else a chance who may take it, modleycoddle him tell him its ok. No wonder we are not getting any better.
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Response to bloke and response to response to blok
04-19-2005 12:33 pm
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Jon brown
I comepletely agree with "Response to bloke" Jon brown throughly deserves his chance to play at national level, has a very good work ethic and is fairly talented, but definately deserves his chance! I do however disagree with "response to bloke" as regards to jon brown was not the only one over looked through the national set up whilst playing at Loughts. The Loughts Goal keeper "George Harris" for almost a year or two has been over looked and deserves his chance in the national team now that mason has retired, and "Amrit Singh" has been over looked for many a year, maybe not so much of a work ethic as Jon brown or other individuals currently involved in the national set up but definately twice if not more talented than most of our current internationals.
Also if Mikey brimblecombe is to be involved in the national set-up....no wonder english hockey is on the decline! Brown Over Brimblecombe anyday!
And as for Jon Peckett.....decides not to play another full season....yet is still involved in the national set up......why might i ask?.if a player hasnt played the last 2 seasons domestically why on earth should he be given the chance to represent the national team?
The main issue was Jon Brown....and yes he fully deserves his chance and i hope he for the future of English hockey... he'll be around for a while!
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Watcher
04-19-2005 2:25 pm
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re: lufbra
OOOOOOOOH, touchy!
True 'lufbra' jock! Why so angry? Tw*t!!
I got mixed up with bleby, my bad.
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rusty
04-19-2005 6:42 pm
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re player & hockey observer
Sorry, somewhere along the line what I was saying has gone astray.
By no means am I bashing the NZ team, if you read my original post I am wholly complimentary on the NZ squad as they are a team I admire and I country I am sad to have left.
I was merely saying that their results, I felt, were not down solely to Hayden Shaw's flicking as was suggested by 'Player'.
I was saying in my opinion he is a little over-rated when for example Phil Burrows (a truly world class striker) gets comparatively no exposure and scores equally impressive and important goals.
The NZ squad have gained results from an ability to get goals from open play as well as having an effective corner battery.
My comments on Shaw's strike rate were (perhaps naively) based on those performances I have witnessed first-hand, or watched on TV - I generally wouldn't comment on things I haven't seen, and am humble enough to admit when I have been proven wrong.
Having seen Taekema score consistently in the NZ national league as well as recently here in the Australian national league, I felt he was more consistent beyond just flicking, but with his great distribution too.
However, I do not, as you rightly speculated, have the statistics to back this.
Troy Elder I feel is so much more than just a competent flicker, he is a natural forward too, whereas, Abbas, for all his ability is essentially a one-trick pony.
I apologise if any Shaw/NZ fans took offence, it was unintentional and I was just stating my opinion, which is what I thought this forum was for.
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jason lee
04-20-2005 8:10 am
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i think the answer to all england problems is adam taylor,. i ve noticed him recently due to his sheer size.if he stops eating and gets his weight to a safe level hs is a real threat
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bored
04-20-2005 8:20 am
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And Jon Peckett is injured. Bit harsh to make him play in the national league if he's not fit don't you think. He hasn't played any hockey for anybody since well before the Olympics!
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Pies
04-20-2005 8:39 am
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Adam Taylor
Surely he is at his optimum fighting weight at the moment and could definitely do a job for the national team.
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Watcher
04-20-2005 8:45 am
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Lions
You undervalue the players who will run through walls at your peril.
You may not win much if you have a side which lacks skill, but you will never win anything with a side that lacks character.
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Hockey Observer
04-20-2005 5:04 pm
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Rusty
Thanks and I was simply stating the facts. As for Taekema his passing can be sublime
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ZigZag
04-20-2005 10:01 pm
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Dragflicks
Has hockey really just become a game about which team has the best drag-flicker and can 'win' the most corners to convert. Why bother with the rest of the match? Why not take ten penalty corners and if then, if tied, take another ten and then go to penalty strokes?
This whole drag-flick scenario has become absurd. I would like to see a height limit placed on the drag-flick when it is used as the first stroke at a penalty corner - not 460mm as it is with the first hit but, at about elbow height 1000mm or perhaps 1250mm.(around elbow height) that would at least give the 'postmen' some chance to attemp to play the ball without having to consider the risk of losing an eye or teeth.
There is always some risk and danger in hockey - there is no way to predict or control the ball accidentally deflected up from a stick or foot - but to pretend that dragflickers are not deliberately targeting the head area of goal-line defenders is to ignore reality - and I feel that that is a reality which should no longer be accepted.
Let us go back to a game where the team with the best outfield squad (attack and defense) will win, not just the team with the dedicated drag-flick specialist. The flicked stroke has a place in the penalty corner but it should not be used to simply circumvent the height restriction placed on the first hit by replacing the hit with stroke that propells the ball in a way as dangerous as an undercut hit, and it should not I feel be dominating hockey match results in the way it has been for the past few years.
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Hockey Observer
04-21-2005 2:24 am
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ZigZag
I note your comments re changing height of flick. If you were to analyse the most successful drag flick corner it would be one that hits or is just above the backboard. Even with postmen they will not see a good flick anyway. They are not expected to save the high ones as it is. At international level, which is where the rules are made, the majority of high flicks are saved. Keepers will tell you that they see them easier. Remember I am talking about top international level. This is about all the flickers so please don't just think of Sohail and his flicks in the top corner.
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Tommy Johnsen
04-21-2005 2:45 am
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dragflickers
shut up, pakistan haven't won anything with the bast drag flicker in the world - Abbas. Jog on
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bored
04-21-2005 6:34 am
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I can't agree with the opinion that hockey games are won simply on who has the best corner specialist. There are a huge number of factors involved in becoming a winning team. Take the Olympics for example, Australia won it and deserved to win it. Troy Elder, whilst he is a perfectly capable corner flicker is not in the same league as Takema, Abbas, Shaw or Lombi. They won because they had the best team defence, were probably the fittest team and were devastating going forwards. Granted corners play a huge part in the game, but they are not the only decisive factor.
Also, if the game is so dangerous, why did noone get hit at a corner in the entire second week of the Olympics while I was there. Just because the thought of standing on the line frightens you (and I) doesn't mean that noone should do it. People go into International hockey knowing the risks. Hockey is an incredibly fast and exciting game and taking drag flicking out of it will make it boring - the short corner is a fantastic point of excitment and anticipation during a game.
Hockey is a game we all love to play and/ or watch. Why do so many people insist on coming on this website and being so incredibly negative about every aspect of the game?
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Juan Sanchos
04-21-2005 2:29 pm
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Adam Taylor
'Tis true that I may indeed by the answer to England's problems - a few problems tho: One - I'm too big-time (as in literally TOO big) and two - it's no longer a sport that appeals to me, once you've reached the dizzy heights of BUSA 2nd X1 gold-medalists, why go any higher? Hence why I'm turning my hand to polevault - how hard can it be??? Jump over one stick using the help of another stick - simple.
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ZigZag
04-21-2005 2:51 pm
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Dragflicks
Bored
I am not and was not incredibly negative about every aspect of the game. I was not even slightly negative about any part. The suggestion of a height limit on the drag-stroke is not a negative idea, it simply makes it consistent with the fact of a limit on the first hit at goal taken during a penalty corner. It might also make it easier for media commentators to understand why some shots are allowed (high drag flick past a defenders ear) and some not (a hit ball directed away from defenders but 500mm high)and entirely incidentally of course (don't want to make softiees of them) might make defending penalty corners a little safer for the hapless individuals who guard the post areas.
I am also aware Hockey Observer that low level drag flicks are effective and more so at International level. But I was writing of hockey in general and although it may appear that the rules of hockey are made at international level by FIH umpires, the HRB are still under the illusion that they - and no one else - compose and publish the rule of the game.
It just struck me as odd reading this through the posts in this thread that heavy critism (which was very negative) was directed at the manager and the defenders when five drag flicks were used to score in an identicle manner and place by the Belgium striker but, no one seemed to question the use of the stroke itself.
I am told that the Pakistan International Sohail Abbas is a fairly competent player at international level, not great, not even exceptional, yet he has headed the international scoring lists for the last three or four years with a total tally of around three hundred goals (I do not have the exact number to hand). That sort of domination of the game by a single aspect of it seems lop-sided to me.
The call for a return to planning to score from open play comes from a hopeful and an entirely positive attitude
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ZigZag
04-26-2005 10:03 am
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Video
I am wondering if there is any video of the game between Belgium and England in the Champions Challenge. Was it televised anywhere? I would very much like to see the height and direction of the dragflicks that did the damage - both to the score and to Bret Garrard.
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Realist
04-27-2005 9:02 am
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ZI ZAG
Who on earth would waste good film to video English players, at best I wouldn't pay $1 entry money to see them. They have no flare, no technique, no chance.
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ZigZag
04-28-2005 9:37 pm
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Realist
That is sad. Do you think any body might have turned up with a camera to see the Belgum side then?
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Realist
05-01-2005 9:45 am
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Zig Zag
Check the mums & dads of those playing as they might have taken a disposable camera with them.
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GO GO
05-09-2005 10:41 am
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Realist
I bet they also wouldn't have wasted film on this lot.
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x85
