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Philosopher
01-27-2005 4:02 am
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GB
Well done Roger Self.
Within two months of becoming a back-door president you have managed to alienate UK Sport and the BOA, who are basically GB's financial and political masters.
What hope is there now?
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real world
01-27-2005 4:54 am
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It's an absolute f***ing joke that hockey may never get to another Olympics based on the decisions made by the backward-looking, out dated, selfish, pig headed people who are in charge of the sport in this nation. Be them English, Scottish or Welsh. Can you see how totally frustrating it is for those players who have the potential to make it to see their hopes and dreams in the hands of a bunch of bureaucrats? In the hands of people who cannot see that Olympic success is and should be the ultimate goal for hockey and that at some point mass participation has to be compromised in order to acheive that. What kid will want to play a sport that is not at an Olympics, the ultimate showpiece with the most exposure? Where will their dreams come from, their inspiration to get started? It is no surprise that the BOA and UK Sport are taking such action... our organisation is farcical. Basically we are saying that we value the opportunity (an opportunity that has hardly been acheived in the past) for the home nations to compete individually at a World/Euro Cup over attendance at an Olympics. What a joke. Ask the players what they value more. So FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!!!
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Reader
01-27-2005 6:18 am
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GB Board
Due to small mindedness it looks like there will be no hockey team in the 2008 Olympics, well done to all those people who think they know better than the BOAm, UKSport and all the hockey players who have been through a very difficult year. The sport is in decline and will continue to plummett if they do not stop and listen to sense
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Englishman
01-27-2005 6:35 am
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Rubbish
Its not a British squad anyway, cant blame the Jocks and leeks, 3 token players get in because Scotland beat a dreadful England in the Euro's and all of a sudden its a british squad. If scotland lose their international status and the chance to play in euro's and commonwealth its a tragdy to their sport. Money is important, but the success came when there was not any so, so what is all the fuss about.
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curious
01-27-2005 6:36 am
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why oh why oh why
i cannot believe the Scots and Welsh.
Surely this has to be years of anger beingvented in the WRONG way.
The way to get back at the English would be to produce players that CANNOT be dropped.
My god - we are on the edge of an abyss - and we're all jumping into it right now.
If we dont act now we may aswell say goodbye to international hockey - or have internationals against Armenia and Iceland.
please - can someone sort this mess out.
I'd love my son to have something to aspire to!
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Player
01-27-2005 8:52 am
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Shame
Well... what a shame.... its pretty disheartening, let alone embarrassing! What on earth do all the other hockey nations think! Appaulling!!!
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Floris
01-27-2005 9:55 am
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Small minded
British Hockey should look at the home counties as 'regions'. All perspective GB players selected from these 'regions'. The GB players could then be 'contracted' to GB Hockey and not the club to allow correct preperation for intl tournaments. There could be a regional tournament to allow selection to be viewed when they are playing against there peers. If you want you countries player selected at GB level, you ensure you field the best team possible for the tournament. How could GB selectors refuse to selct players from a team that won the regional tournament?
The Scots and Welsh are not represented well at GB level because they are not playing hockey at the correct level to push themselves (Generalisation).
If you look at the great hockey nations at the moment, many of the player push their development by ensuring they are playing in the great domestic leagues. Think about it doen't require a Phd.
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Realist
01-27-2005 10:27 am
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GB
This was inevitable, as our association is run by old cronnies, ex coaches / managers and old time has-been players who only take up these posts hoping for a gong from Buckhouse. None of them are top flight business men and most certainly none have any peoples or negotiating skills. JOBS FOR THE BOYS
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Dumbfounded
01-27-2005 11:11 am
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Why does the BOA and UK Sport not intervene.
As I understand it England want what the BOA and UK Sport want. Wales and Scotland don't and the way the voting goes they can block anything they want to.
Excellent bang as many heads together as possible and that includes Government Quangos that have contributed to this appalling mess.
If the BOA and UK Sport could make a decision that would aid hockey and suit their agenda then they should look at supporting the countries that want GB to run a four year cycle that includes participation in all major competitions . Run a GB team if Wales and Scotland want to enter as well and go it alone then let them. Any player that wants to opt for GB would obviously have to choose to represent GB and not Scotland and Wales.
Simple and a solution that would appear to suit everyone so will someone please tell me why the BOA and UK Sport have not come to this conclusion, or is that what the crafty clever Mr Self has in mind. After all to continue GB as it is is just a non starter we will never win or possibly qualify again.
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the best
01-27-2005 1:48 pm
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englishman/curious
Englishman; finally someone who is not scottish sees that the 'GB' team is an england team!
curious; scotland have produced players who were dropped and really shouldn't have been. think of what happend with lawrence docherty who only didn't play for holland in the olympics becuase of his visa troubles, he was cut from the squad when he is good enough to have a country like holland after him!
the GB team should have more equal input from all of the nations involved, this would bring in new concepts and ideas.
if an all out GB team was made perminantly then alot of youth players wouldn't have the same desire to play international hockey. if you ask the current scottish squads if they would rather be standing on a pitch with fellow countrymen hearing flower of scotland or with a load of english players who he has had to prove himself more than the rest i know the majority would stay scottish as would i!
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Player
01-27-2005 4:19 pm
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the future
but now is the time to remedy all that!
Yes the past GB teams have been english based BUT now is the time to change.
Now the chance is being offered to the other hockey unions to legitimately have players involved because the set up will lend itself to them being included.
This is the chance for playerd of ability to show themselves over 4 years.
4 years to prove they are worth it and not the usual 9 months.
so why are they against it? The shop window is there but they dont want to use it.
It seems very very peculiar!
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topper
01-28-2005 4:01 am
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what You aspire to
how many of the above are ex internationlists.probably not one.
why is it better to expose a few players to top international hockey on the chance that a few might get to an Olympics,than expose more numbers to it. i dont remember this being mentioned before when twenty years ago GBhad a successful team.the truth is that English hockey has been going backwards for a number of years ,spending and loosing incredible sums of money and i have to say with no success.so should Scottish hockey let them ruin things any further .i dont think so.as you are well aware Scottish international hockey (for men anyway)is on the up.
hockey is not all about the Olympics.in the past the Scotland womens team went to two world cups exposing a greater number of players to this level.how backwards to think that Scotland would benifit from exposing only a couple of players to it.
I think you should take a serious look at the English domestic set up and totally re vamp it.
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King tut
01-28-2005 4:48 am
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Surely you're all missing the point. All the posts submitted seem to think that the problem that GB is not doing so well is because they are not playing together enough, maybe the team simply isn't good enough? If as much time was spent on trying to get as many players as possible involved in hockey then there would naturally be more players of suitable standard who could then be helped in whatever way possible.
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jockman
01-28-2005 5:10 am
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why should we have to prove ourselves?
our house is in order, we have area and full institutes we have secured our funding and players are coming through your house has gone bankrupt and your team is full of mediocre players who are either too young or too old.
the europeans in barcelona was a change in the power balance.
England has missed the boat and are looking for a way back on board.
Yes the Olympics are paramount but why should scotland and wales lose out so england gets another chance to get better with more money?
england are the reason that they want to withdraw the funding because of the ineptitude of the programme for the last twelve years.
cos clearly barry dancer did not know what to do did he? eh?
why?
you made your beds for years only england players in GB so what are we actually losing out on?
if mike hamilton had stayed not one scot would have gone!
why should we bother with england?
arrogant selfish amateurs enjoy the mess you have created.
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Hockey Watcher
01-28-2005 10:29 am
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The Future of Hockey in UK
I am ashamed to be Scottish at the moment. Rarely have I read such animosity from one part of this large island about another.
There were Scots in both of our 2004 Olympic/potential Olympic teams and neither squad did a job worth bragging about.
Whatever your home allegience, hockey should be your prime concern. If the rest of the World is fed up with the UK having more 'bites of the cherry' (ie. in the Worlds etc) than themselves (ie Holland - 1 team, Australia - 1 team etc.) then we had better just accept it and get on and do our best.
Decisions from the past are just there, in the past and we need to get over our bickering about past choices and start to work together to win or at least qualify.
THe young are our future so PLEASE support the growth of the sport in all parts of the country and get over the past.
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observer
01-28-2005 11:18 am
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re:Jockman
If i were you mate i'd read HOCKEY WATCHER' comments.
This isnt a petty/back stabbing game of one upmanship.
This is the future of hockey - GB Hockey!
If youre so bloody proud of Scotland and its Institutes - then wouldnt you want to see this team at the Olympics!
Oh yeah - did someone forget to point out that Scotland CANT compete at the Olympics!
Look at the bigger picture matey!
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John Wayne
01-28-2005 1:01 pm
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Play it again?
Tell me what woould be different about the next four years because just playing as one squad would not change the outcome. What will the set-up be for a GB team, how will it work, who and what will be the management team and how will the current palying standards be raised to olympic medal standard? Answer those questions and I think it might help people see a way forward. More time together wont change things on its own - or do you think different?
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Old one
01-28-2005 1:55 pm
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Observer and others
The whole issue of other countries "being tired of UK having more than one bite at the cherry" is a complete red herring.
England, Scotland and Wales are perfectly entitled to play in European and World level events as they are recognised governing bodies according to FIH statute.
It is the Olympic movement which recognises Great Britain as a team and it is only for the OG that GB has any function in terms of hockey.
All of this has been brought about by a number of parties which see only money and their own interest as being important.
1 UK Sport have threatened to reduce future funding in view of recent past performance - always likely when funding is results driven. Other sports and individuals are facing exactly the same situation, particularly in view of the announced "targetting of funding" to achieve medals. My own view is that a medal in China 2008 is probably beyond our capability because of the fundamental changes which need to be made in coaching, management, development and ethos.
2 Some hockey administrators and players who have quite obviously been bleeding the cash cow of lottery funding dry are absolutely terrified that their funding is to be cut and that their income stream will be removed. There will be funding cuts no matter what GB Hockey does! We have to deal with it.
3 The players who went to the Olympics (m) and who tried to get to the Olympics (w) are clearly not of the required standard and their opinions are really of little consequence as few if any will be around in 4 years time. Again self interest is paramount in these opinions.
There has been little or no feedback about the OG and certainly no evidence that the players involved would have achieved a better outcome with any of these proposals in place.
Perhaps another issue is that the recent performance of English Hockey in terms of management of funding sends shivers up the spines of many - what about all of those debts that were unpaid when the EHA went into administration? Suppliers left with little or no payment for services.
Yes - we want to get into a business arrangement with a company like that! .............NOT
Turkeys voting for christmas or what?
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Younger Old One
01-29-2005 7:03 am
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Red Herrings and Self Interest
Spot on!
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Historian
01-29-2005 6:10 pm
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GB
well the country who actually made this sports as an international sports and introduced it throughout the world ! is backing up ???????????? what a shame ??? the country who won golds 3 times ,1908 ,1912,1988 ........why cannot produce quality players ?
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Outside observer
02-01-2005 11:35 pm
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Home countries
Seems to me that FIH have got it wrong in allowing home countries to be recognised as the governing bodies. The IOC have got it perfectly correct in only recognising one country. The answer is quite simple - there is only one passport for the citizens of the UK. The Scots, Welsh and English are all British citizens with British passports. So it is perfectly correct to say they have two bites of the cherry in being allowed to participate as separate 'states' when in fact they are only one real country. One country, one passport, one governing body with FIH. Simple. Just like the rest of the world. If they want to insist on retaining home country rights - no problem - but no more Olympic competition. At least the home countries have recognised this in football and do not compete in the Olympic Games but only play worldwide as the home countries (still very strange given that they all have the same British passports). It has to be one or the other - not the two bites of the cherry.
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GB Player
02-02-2005 12:40 pm
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Am I right in saying that the Scottish vote was 100% from ALL clubs in Scotland behind NOT giving up the right to play for Scotland at the highest level.
We only get a token amount of players in each team - English wake up to this fact. Why should all the nations give up our right to play at the top level so you can grow and grow.
If SO many Scots are behind the move, how come all the Clubs voted as they did and also where were all the players and supporters at all the discussions around the country and most importantly during the vote to hear the argues?
It is not about 2 or 3 people, it is about the majority youth. The BOA are putting a gun to the head because we spent £20+ MILLION on programmes which produced NOTHING and I feel they are hiding behind this change in order to boot out the game.
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Sigh of frustration
02-03-2005 7:04 am
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GB player
No it wasn't all the clubs in Scotland, just 30 of the least apathetic who appear to be able to over-rule 1,500 clubs in England and half a dozen in Wales.
And if you really are a GB player, you either must have signed the petition calling for MORE opportunities to play as GB (which was endorsed by all bar one of the players involved in the last campaign) or you must be Rhona Simpson (the only one who didn't sign up) and who is far too sensible to have contributed the nonsensical blurb above.
Also, "we" didn't spend £20million. Sport England did. There was not a single Scottish (or Welsh) penny involved, just lots of bleating about equal opportunities for players who did not cut the mustard (especially the women, who are appalling).
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Scottie
02-04-2005 5:49 am
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If the boot was on the other foot, England would have done the same. HYPOCRITES
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INTERESTED
02-04-2005 9:58 am
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?????
Were the 1500 English clubs asked their views ? or do they consider themselves GB anyway?
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Betrayed!
02-08-2005 11:17 am
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Listen to the youngsters - the future!
ALL countries have the rite to compete at ANY level! OK, so the Welsh or Scottish teams might not be world beatters but at least the oportunity to play at en even higher lavel is there to be achieved - by making one 'big' GB team there will be a huge gap between club hokey and GB and this might deter players! If the aspiration to become the best is in a persons blood, then they can still go for GB! THE SAME PLAYERS WILL STIL BE AVAILABLE FOR GB WHATEVER HAPPENS - THE SAME TALENT WILL STIL BE ABLE TO PLAY FOR THE SAME TEAM, SO WHY DESTROY NATIONAL PRIDE IN THE PROCESS!! TEAMSI'ts up to the WHU, SHU and EHU to organise their players in such a way that for their best players GB is the priority -to make sure that teams know each other inside out and back to front before the Olympics (and no other tournament!) Then, and only then can a world beating team be formed. Dont get us wrong - we want the GB side to be THE BEST however taking Wales, Scotland and Enland international teams out of the equasion is NOT the way to do it!
I aspire to play regularly for Wales, as Scots aspire to play regularly for Scotland, and the English aspire to play for England in major tournaments - that can NOT be take away form the players!
The old bats at the 'top' of the GB governing body or whatever they're called these days should not make decisions on which they know nothing - simple as!
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BigFoz
03-09-2005 5:40 am
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Sieze the nettle! It's an opportunity.
Rather than taking some kind of childish revenge (you've not included us in the past, so now we're going to go and play on our own...), perhaps the Scots and Welsh could view this as an opportunity.
It's fairly obvious that the current play from GB teams is inadequate and out of touch with the world level of hockey. As the team is mainly England sourced, that simply means we have more out of touch players?
Scotland and Wales now have an opportunity to review what went wrong in the last campaign, identify the weaknesses in teams and players and start structured programs to build the kind of players who can compete and win at world level. The smaller structures in Wales and Scotland should provide nimbleness and speed of reaction.
As Nike advertises - Just DO IT.
For England. It's obvious the "English" GB teams couldn't compete in the modern world game - how much work has been done to identify what is required and starting coaching programs to start building players?
Everybody quit moaning and start working together or we ALL lose out. Don't cut your nose off to spite your face.
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Casual observer
03-11-2005 6:24 am
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Surely appointing the right management team early in the cycle would helkp out this time around!!
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x28
