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Hellenic Hockey Federation Appeal Dismissed by CAS  x54
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| International Hockey Federation |
May 19, 2004 
FIH
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FIH Press Release
Hellenic Hockey Federation Appeal Dismissed by CAS South Africa’s participation as twelfth qualified nation confirmed
The International Hockey Federation gives notice of the Court of Arbitration for Sport’s (CAS) decision regarding participation of the Greek men’s hockey team at the 2004 Olympic Games, as follows:
QUOTE
The Court of Arbitration for Sport pronounces:
1. The Court of Arbitration for Sports has jurisdiction to hear the appeal filed on 17 February 2004 by Hellenic Hockey Federation.
2. The appeal filed by the Hellenic Hockey Federation is admissable.*
3. The appeal filed by the Hellenic Hockey Federation is dismissed.
4. The Hellenic Hockey Federation shall bear 50% of the costs of this arbitration and the Federation Internationale de Hockey and South African Hockey Association shall bear 25% of such costs, the amount of which is to be determined and served by the Secretary General of CAS.l
5. Each party shall bear its own costs.
Done in Lausanne, 19 May 2004
UNQUOTE
*Note: point 2 means that HHF’s appeal met technical considerations regarding time limits for appeals according to FIH Statutes.
The full text of the award will follow from CAS “as soon as possible”.
However a letter from CAS accompanying the decision reads as follows:
“The Panel understands the Olympic Qualification Criteria as allowing the FIH to maintain its qualification decision.”
“The Panel notes that this leads to the exceptional situation that the host country in a team event cannot participate in the Olympic Games.”
As a result of the decision, FIH confirms South Africa’s participation in the 2004 Olympic Games as twelfth qualified nation.
For ease of reference, FIH’s previous press release, dated 20 Feb 2004 is quoted as follows:
FIH News Release: Greece to Contest Olympic Qualifying Procedure at CAS
20 Feb 2004
The Hellenic Hockey Federation has submitted a dispute to the Court of Arbitration of Sport (CAS) 17 February 2004, concerning the qualification of the Greek Men’s team to the XXVII Olympic Games, reports the International Hockey Federation (FIH).
Greece, the host nation of the XXVII Olympic Games, was required to meet the qualification criteria set out by the International Hockey Federation (FIH) and the International Olympic Committee (IOC). The first option for Greece to gain a place at the Olympics was by qualifying for the European Nations Cup, held in 2003. Greece did not qualify for this tournament but there was a second opportunity for Greece to qualify for the Olympics.
This required Greece to beat the 12th qualified team of the Men’s Olympic Qualifier in a best of three play-off competition. Canada, the 12th qualified team at the Qualifiers, would keep its place in the Qualifier regardless of whether it won or lost against Greece, but there would be six places at stake at the Men’s Olympic Qualifying Tournament in Madrid if Greece qualified, rather than seven.
Greece participated under protest in the Men’s Qualifying Play-Off Competition held 18 and 19 February in Madrid.
The results of the play-off are:
18.02.04 Match 1: Canada 7 Greece 1
19.02.04 Match 2: Greece 1 Canada 3
21.02.04 Match 3: Following the FIH Tournament Regulations, as the same team won the first two matches, it was not compulsory to play the third match.
The teams have agreed not to play the final match.
For further information on the qualification procedures for the Olympics and detailed reports from the play-off series, see www.worldhockey.org.
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Comments on this article
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d
05-19-2004 12:07 pm
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what would have happened to Korean hockey if the olympics not been hosted by them. would they be as strong and established as they are today?. In my opinion the point of the olympics was to spread the word, even if the greeks are a weak international side at the moment it doesn't mean they won't improve in the future and play a bigger part in the sport.
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ZEUS
05-19-2004 1:22 pm
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It is a sad day for the Olympic Games and the ideals that are embraced within. To the fellow Greeks all I have to say is to keep your chins up and look into the future. Mistakes were done and it will be good to accept them. But the biggest mistake was done by the FIH. I dont think that they can be proud for what has transpired. They wanted to win the case and show muscle to a small and insignificant federation like the Greek one. So they can sit on their laurels and enjoy the momentun. They killed the sport in Greece before they even tried to help it. I thought that the case of arbitration was between Greek hockey and the FIH. But Steve Jaspan could not help it and stay out of it. The South African Hockey Association will pay 25% of the the court expenses. I dont get but I guess they know better.
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Smiler
05-19-2004 1:53 pm
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CAS has ruled. Now lets get on with the Games and make Hockey a winner - Womens and Mens!!!!!
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Tim Has
05-19-2004 5:25 pm
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Did the FIH touch base with the true spirit of the Olympics??
In the end it all became very political and the most powerfull have won their case.....congratulations, justice has been done to the competitive side of our game... the best teams will play the Olympic tournament and CAS did their usual professional job. But maybe the Games were initially meant to serve a broader purpose. The Greeks initiators of the Games, Greece the country where the Olympic spirit was founded; the spirit of true sportmanship...... and now FIH all of a sudden breaks with a respectable tradition. Did the participation of weak hosting nations ever affect the Olympic experience ........?? Did it charge the development of our Game in these countries? Change this situation into a positive one - let's be creative extend the competition into 14 participating countries and indeed let's go on with it........!!!
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hockeymom
05-19-2004 5:54 pm
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I'm curious about the other Olympic sports. Do the Greek athletes get into the 100 meters or swimming or the horse jumping because they are the hosts or do they have to meet Olympic standards in those events?
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Podge
05-19-2004 8:46 pm
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The decision
My sincere and honest condolences go to the Greek Mens Hockey team, and there women's team who were robbed by their own federation of qualifying for the Olympic games.
The HHF and Greece can only blame themselves for the situation that has resulted. Their Women's team should be furious and in any other hockey country such a ludicrous situation of having the women withdrawn from a qualification tournament for their men to be appealed when they did not have a leg to stand on would never have been allowed.
The HHF should try and learn from this sad state of affairs and make themselves available as a warm up team ahead of the games instead of drowning their sorrows and throwing plates around the room. The FIH, should continue to provide some long term support to the greeks regardless of the recent impasse.
The decision is vital for the sport in Africa and more specifically South Africa. For the first time ever, two African teams will compete in an olympic games, and is an indication of the african rennaisance that is beggining. South Africa won the bid for th 2010 Soccer world cup, which takes the game to Africa, another fantastic day for the continent.
How the Greeks respond to the situation will be a true indication of their resolve to grow the sport in their country, however their track record leaves a lot to be desired. The Greek Sports Ministry need to do some soul searching and investigate the bizarre way the HHF handled hockey. Stop pointing the finger at the rest of the world and look in the mirror.
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Andrew
05-20-2004 3:14 am
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thanks podge...
Thanks for your sincere regrets, i can only hope now that South Africa do not Automatically qualify for the wold cup. Fai's fair!
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Shawn Steele
05-20-2004 7:50 am
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RE: Hockeymom
Each governing association is responsible for thier own qualification requirements. Most associations freely give the host nations berths in thier sport. This is covered in each associations qualification document. A governing association can require the host nation to meet a certain qualification standard, most do not ask this of the host nation but some do. I hope this helps. To find out the qualification requirements for each sport you would have to look at the qualification document for each sport.
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Arc
05-20-2004 8:20 am
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Hardluck Greece! South Africa haven't had it easy either in the last 8 years and they certainly deserve their spot in the Olympic Games in the 2004 games. I have always been under the impression that the the best and only the best should participate in the Games, it's only fair towards other teams and the true spirit of competition!!!
Why does the Olympic games portray: Stronger, Faster and higher as their main theme?? And all is not lost Greece (like Podge stated) can play the world's best as warmup games and what an excellent oppertunity for them.
G-luck South Africa best wishes for the preparation time ahead!
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salisu.
05-20-2004 9:03 am
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SA. WISHING ALL THE BEST AT THE2004 GAMES.
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Andrew
05-20-2004 9:29 am
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Arc....
You fail to mention that the IOC also ran a series of ads with the motto "celebrate humanity" and not who comes 1st but who comes 3rd and who just competes.
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ZEUS
05-20-2004 11:16 am
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For Podge
I read many of your threads on the subject and I get the feeling that while you arguing your case you are abusive at the same time. One thing that remains a fact is that under the usual procedure the SA men's team would not have qualified for the OG. You were presented with a gift that you could not have wished for in your wildest dreams. Apart from generalities you seem to know so very little. Yes we will look at our own affairs and we will carry on, life still goes on. Furthermore you should not bother with what will go on in Greece because you never cared anyway- you had your story to tell. Leave things as they are you did not win anything you were just given something that was not legitamately yours. The mistakes that were done by the HHF do not worth the magnitute of the loss. As far the girls team withdrawl - which you seem to disagree- it was the most honest and well evaluated move that the HHF has done so far. They simply could not have a chance. Money was never a lot and the simple decision that had to be made was to put your money to where you had more chances. This was a decision made by the coach and the HHF management and I can even say that the girls deep down went along with it. You can also look at the mirror and see that all South Africa suffered for the stupid decision not to go to Sydney was a small reprimand letter by FIH asking them not to do it again. In my own terms they should have been denied a berth for the next 5 OG. And Sam Rumsany is still there. I think you are almost praat kak if my spelling is right. But dont worry you are still going to play in a state of the art stadium despite your derogatory comments. And you will be safe, we are still one of the safest countries in the world and you will be well received even if you divulge your true name. We will not break a plate on you but rather fill it with some good Greek food and a glass of wine. Cheers
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Elitism
05-20-2004 1:36 pm
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The FIH cares nothing about development and this whole process smakes of elitism from the upper ranks. The HHF did not handle the process well admitedly but they should have never have had to handle it in the first place.
FIH should take a long hard look at the recent Rugby World Cup and what the IRB is doing to help weaker nations stay with the big 6. Granted this action should have started before the WC but they are acting on the inequities and encouraging the big countries to share their wealth and experience.
But then again, the Dutch and Germans don't play rugby.
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Tim Has
05-20-2004 2:20 pm
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Qualification, Politics and other hick ups
Beyond rules, qualification systems, nbr.1's, politics, interests and so on i would like to reflect on a hosting nation that is unable to qualify for 20 Olympic disciplines......... not meeting the standards set. What a boost for society, what a fundamental misunderstanding....of the Olympic Spirit. It is of course not only about Greece but about the principles of Sports....I wish all the best for SA in the Olympic tournament...!!
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Hockey fan
05-20-2004 2:57 pm
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Hockey v Soccer
It is unfair to campare the participation of the SA men's hockey team in the thens Olympics to that of Bafana Bafana in the 2010 Soccer World Cup. Firstly, SA has qualified for the 1998 (France) and 2002 (S Korea and Japan) all by themselves. No favours there. Also they were continental champions in 1996 when they won the African Cup of Nations at home. Also the soccer is just one event, while the Olympics consist of many different sports, plenty of which I'm sure will feature the best athletes Greece has to offer.
The hockey team has qualified for the last three Olympics, although Nocsa saw fit not to send the men to Sydney 2000. It is a pity for Greece as they did deserve a chance...all they had to do was beat Canada in a 3-Test series, but they lost both and Canada was beaten in series in SA by SA earlier this year. Canada failed to qualify.
At the end of the day this matter was poorly handled by top administrators and now their is sadness all round. Even SA coach Paul Revington said he was sorry for the Greeks.
SA have handled themselves in the most profesional manner and deserve credit for that. Hopefully they will perform well in Athens to make some sense of this sorry situation...
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Alfie
05-21-2004 6:49 am
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do greeks someone in every sport at the olympics?
World cups are one sport and so there seems to me that there is a differance between world cup and olympics.
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Arc
05-21-2004 7:28 am
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Andrew...
medals is not the be all and end all of the Olympics but at least have the best nations that deserve their spot play one another in the true spirit of the Olympic games....and we'll still 'celebrate humanity'!!!
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President of a Hockey Club in Greece
05-21-2004 8:39 am
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Olympics 2004
Dear All
For sure greek hockey is still weak and comes with a history of few years, since a serious preparation of two years only, was not proved enough to upgrade the greek national team to compete with national teams of other countries with great tradition in hockey, lots of clubs and athletes and a very efficient organisation.
However my dear friends, hockey fans allover the world, as a descendant of the people that have invented Olympic Games some 3000 years ago, Olympic Spirit is not the spirit to win in the sport, it is actually the spirit to participate.
Olympic Games ( I would prefer the word sports ), were founded by the King of Olympia as an ALTERNATIVE TO STOP THE WAR IN PELOPONESE in 700 B.C., as a substitute to war.
But my dear friends the Olympic Spirit in the revived Olympic Games is now lost (of course I dont blame Pierre de Coubertin for that, but the present people in charge) and now we treat Olympic Games as a WAR OF POLITICS.
I dont really understand the attitude of FIH in this situation, since for more than 100 years in the New Olympic Games revived in 1896, for all sports and games this is the single case ever, for the HOST COUNTRY NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE GAMES.
It is as if somebody invite some guests in his house for a dinner and does not participate in this dinner, because all of his guests have decided that he is not good enough to be one of them and have a dinner with them.
CRAZY ISNT IT?
But in my opinion Olympic Spirit has also the proudness of Hospitality (Xenios Zeus) and I wish to invite and welcome all of these people who have excluded greek hockey from the participation in the fields in Athens Olympics, and try our best as host country to organise Olympic Games in accordance to the true Olympic Spirit.
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ZEUS
05-21-2004 10:27 am
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For Mr Hari Kant
Hi Hari
Yesterday I posted a reply for Podge, any idea what happened to it?
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Player
05-21-2004 11:07 am
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Greek Hockey
I am disgusted with the IOC. I really feel thay let down the Greek nation. Greece are the home nation. They have the RIGHT to play , period. The USA field hockey played. Korea played. This ruling needs to be changed ASAP as it has made a mockery of the Olympic's.
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Bokke
05-21-2004 2:01 pm
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Reply to: President of a Hockey Club in Greece
You compare this decision to a party at your house. Well when there is a party at your house do you participate in everything that happens or only the things that you are good in Behonest here? 'Cause no-one likes playing scrabble with a bad speller.
You see i honestly feel that the hockey players of Greece did there best and acheieved more than any one ever thought they would. So therefore i blame the HHF for only taking the FIH Qualification criteria seriously when it became to late, oh yes and why is that? why did the HHF only take Olympic Qualfacation so seriously so late??????????????? To much Pita Souvlakia with Ouzo at your party.
To the HELLENIC HOCKEY "TEAM" SORRY TO READ ABOUT THE OUTCOME, keep your chins up there is always the next games, this show them and for once keep the critics quiet.
GOOD LUCK TO ALL.
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Podge
05-21-2004 9:53 pm
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Reply to Zeus
Thank you for your hospitality, however I wont be able to afford to go as much as I would like, but will be following the action on TV.
As I mentioned, I am sincere in my condolences to Greece, however, and your post indicates it, you and Greek Hockey need to do some soul searching. If you explore the press releases dating back to early 2002 and before, you will see that the qualification criteria were reached in consultation with the HHF, so the impression that this was suddenly sprung open Greece is not correct. I am also unconvinced about your reasoning concerning your womens team, and I believe this decision back fired on HHF. How is it logical that the HHF will appeal for the men while not worrying about the women...if your women are fine with this, then i am very suprised.
Your comments about the Ramsamy issue are also unfounded, his reasoning for pulling out the team was a combination of socio-political factors as well as the feeling that the team were not good enough to compete- despite meeting IOC qualification criteria. So you see how high our countries standards are in terms of participation. Furthermore, there is definitely no 'gifting' of a position to South Africa- this is not a Greece vs SA issue. South Africa qualified according to the qualification criteria.
Lastly, I dont understand why financing is such an issue. You had enough money to apply for the bid to host the Games, so why has hockey seemingly been underfunded by your Olympic organisation? You keep saying that because you invented the olympics, you should host and play the hockey tournament, but if you are in such financial difficulty as you claim, that implies that you were given funds that were misused, or your Olympic organisation just were not interested in Hockey....and that is not SOuth Africa, the FIH or the IOC's fault-hence my suggestion of some soul searching and enquiry into how your government and sports agencies handled the issue.
I will be watching Greek Hockey very closely over the next four years to see if all the promises to develop and compete are carried through.
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RHINO
05-22-2004 10:56 am
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I support Podge
Personnally, I found always that the says of Podge are right and correct. Concerning the no participation of the Women Team, I must tell Zeus that the financial problem were was the main reason given for the withdrawal, at least in the Greek Newspapers. I must also add some comments to the text of the President of a Hockey club. The phrase saying that the aim of the Games is not to win but to participate is From Pierre de Coubertin, not from Ancient Olympia. And may be you don't remember that in the antique Olympiad, only the Greeks were allowed to particpate
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ZEUS
05-22-2004 10:58 am
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For Podge
I like your style of arguing better in your last thread. Believe you me that I have been the first to admit that mistakes were done at HHF level. But for goodennes shake dont you think that the level of standard for the Greek teams was put too high. You will agree with me that if the Greek teams had the standard they were asked to meet there would have never been a question of imposing qualification criteria. So some others must do some soul searching as well. I will rest my case on this issue as it has been dealt with.
Now for RSA. If the rationale for not sending the team to Sydney is as you portrait it -socio political and not competent enough- I think you are not honest to yourself first of all as I am sure you know the facts. The team was pulled out because of it being underepresented proportionally by other than white colour players. The rest were excuses that convinced no one. This situation has not changed, the team is still not proportionaly representing the people of South Africa and still not competitive for any place between 1-8. So what has changed; nothing. But the decision not to send the team to Sydney was wrong and you cannot afford to do the same mistake twice. In todays non discriminatory South Africa the best irrespective of colour or race should make up the country's team otherwise there will be racism again. Blacks could not afford hockey in the apartheid years and find their way out to soccer so it be. With the years to come they will also shine in hockey. Thats the story I know. Good luck to all SA athletes in the OG but Greece in the case of hockey was treated harshly. If the HHF made mistakes and "deserved" to be punished look who was punished in the end, Hockey and its players.
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?
05-23-2004 5:16 am
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Zeus
What gives you the right to say that the HHF made the best decision in cutting the Greek womens team? And even more to say that "they went along with it" ......
Its different to see things from the outside, than the inside. The truth is that their own federation made things turn out the way that they have.
Those girls sacrificed a lot and they really did try to make a difference for hockey in GREECE. So please, if u werent there - dont even try to set the blame on the women..... because you are really worng in saying that!!!!!
Anyway, it's a pitty that things have turned out the way that they have! And another thing, I blame the HHF for how things went for the mens team...... but anyway!!!
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.....
05-23-2004 5:29 am
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Greek women team
I think there is a whole lot more behind the HHF and its reasoning for withdrawing its womens team......
someone should have a look into that!!!
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POdge
05-23-2004 9:38 am
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Zeus-you dont have a clue
Since when did you become a political analyst and a specialist in South African history? Your points make no sense, and are totally incorrect.
It is blatantly clear that you have scraped the bottom of the barrel, and because it is clear that HHF sold out the sport of Hockey in their own country and you have not been able to face the home truths, you see it necessary to justify the whole decision by making wild statments about racial issues in a country you clearly know nothing about.
You insult all races of the country by making such broad generalisations and what you have written is racial sterotyping at its most insulting form.
"Blacks could not afford hockey in the apartheid years and find their way out to soccer so it be." What a load of drivel. People of colour have been playing hockey for many years in SA, they were not selected because of the apartheid policy, not because they couldnt afford to play the game.
"This situation has not changed, the team is still not proportionaly representing the people of South Africa "......"......In todays non discriminatory South Africa the best irrespective of colour or race should make up the country's team otherwise there will be racism again". You have done a great job of showing your ignorance, lack of respect, and intention to insult and inflame by making such contradictory statements. None of the players selected for sydney or who will go to athens are selected as a result of their tone of their skin, and they would all take major exception to any implication that they are there on the basis of colour and not ability. Your arguement makes no sense Zeus.
"South Africa and still not competitive for any place between 1-8." Again, what a pointless statement. Olympics is not about winning a medal, its about competing in an event where all teams are of olympic standard, otherwise there would be 3 teams in every event.
You also conveniently forget that the mens baseball team were sent in place of mens hockey. Proportional representation was nearly identical in their team, and they had no chance of getting a medal, so it was no different. Sam Ramsamy did not send the team as a result of a combination of factors he alone perceived were going on. For your information, our black Sports Minister stood up in parliament and insisted mens hockey go, however because the olympic committee of south africa is an independant organisation, they did not have to bow to government pressure.
Finally, your utter foolish ignorance is revealed in the fact that by trying to argue thru attacking south africa, you have blindly given the blessing to the decision to leave greece outside the event:
1. 'Representation'- run us through the handing out of passports to non-naturalized greeks?
2. Not being competitive enough- please tell me how Greece are competitive?
3. Financial issues (blacks cant afford hockey)- well neither can the Greeks, according to your argument.
Zeus, be careful how you try to justify your federations total incompetence, and your blatant refusal to look inward as a Greek for the reasons why you were excluded. I have sympathised with your situation, but asked reasonable questions, but all you have done is insult.
We have just celebrated 10 years of democracy in our united country and are dealing with our past and builiding our future. Maybe you should deal with greek cyprus' racist refusal to live in harmony with the turks, and the racism inherent in your society, before you make such rash statments.
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ZEUS
05-23-2004 10:39 am
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For Rhino
I am not suprised with the comments of Rhino as (she?) is the odd one out for disagreeing with any Greek point o view. I am afraid that controverses for the shake of it. You missed the point several times in the past so no big deal for once more. I read that you train in Iraklio, you lucky to have a pitch- so you are either the Athenians or SFA?
As far as the questions raised by the girls I am afraid that it is fair to say that their progress in comparison to that of the men was minimal and as much as it hurts the decision in my opinion was right.
Podge said why there was not a protest filed for the girls. The answer is obvious there was no issue since the HHF decided to withdraw the team. The protest for the men was on the issue that the team had to play Cuba no 17 in the world ranking and because they withdrew then they had to play Canada no 15 in the world ranking. With a small effort from the FIH we could have played #12 or 10. Fair, isnt it?
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Achilles
05-23-2004 11:31 am
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Women´s team
As a matter of fact the Greek women´s team unfortunately was not competetive enough to win the qualifyer in New Zealand, that simply is a matter of fact - just have a look at their results. I would ask everbody - espececially Greek players not to put all the blame on their local organization, the HHF but maybe have a closer look at FIH and what they have done for helping Greek hockey, also women´s hockey. To save you the work i can tell you: nothing.
If FIH had not imposed for the first time in history unfair qualification criteria without the consent of HHF (who can PROVE me the opposite?) the whole discussion would be obsolete.
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Elisa
05-23-2004 3:43 pm
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Proof
Easy to prove: HHF did agree with all the qualification standards, and while I have to admit I am not in a position to produce written documentation of this, I think the following is sufficient: if they did disagree, why did they only appeal to CAS when all was said and done and they had lost? Why not right away? Why were there no press statements when the qualification criteria were first published?
I do have sympathy for the Greek players, for all the effort they made, and I feel their disappointment, but I have no understanding for HHF - what else than a sore loser can you be called if you cry foul only when you disagree with the end result?
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Podge
05-23-2004 8:50 pm
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Proof of the HHF's agreement with the FIH
Press release 12 July 2002
START QUOTE
"Further news from the FIH Executive Board meeting, on Saturday 6th July, as follows:
Greece qualification criteria for 2004 Olympics facilitated
Revised qualification criteria have been set in order to facilitate the
Greece teams qualification to the 2004 Olympics, as follows:
Stage 1:
If either (or both) of the teams qualify for the finals of the European
Nations Cup, qualification guaranteed for Olympic Games.
If either one (or both) teams do not qualify via European Nations Cup
Qualifier the following
Stage 2:
Greece to play the 12th (10th in the Women’s tournament) qualified team, from a ranking point of view, of the Olympic Qualifier, in a best of 3 play-off competition immediately prior to and at the venue of, the Olympic Qualifier.
If Greece wins the play-off it qualifies for Olympic Games.
Peter Cohen, FIH Hon. Secretary General, commented, “We have worked in close co-operation with the Hellenic Hockey Federation to arrive at these criteria. Whilst we sincerely hope that at least one of the Greek teams will compete in their Olympic games, we must act on guidelines issued by the IOC that there must be a minimum qualifying standard”.
END QUOTE
PLEASE TELL ME WHERE IT STATES THAT CUBA ARE THE TEAM FOR THE GREEK HOCKEY TEAM TO PLAY AGAINST?? IT SPECIFICALLY STATES THE 12TH QUALIFIER, AND SINCE CUBA WITHDREW, THE REPLACEMENT TEAM IN THE FORM OF CANADA PLAYED.
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Rhino
05-24-2004 1:36 am
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to Zeus
I don't disagree with any Greek Point of View (because your point of view is not the one of all the greeks), I tell facts. I know that the women's team was not strong enough for competing in the qualifying process, but what I said is that the resaon for the withdrawal that I read in the Greek newspaper was the lack of money.The problem Zeus, is that you don't read what I am writing. I never said that I was playing in neo Iraklio, I say that it was right that several teams had training there. Full stop ! and as you said if they are lucky to have a pitch there, it is surely because many pitches are missing. For the development of hockey, should not have been better to spend the money of the appeal for building a new pitch ? I am very sorry for the players of the national team who are good guys, but I am even more sorry for the other players playing in Greece who has to wait until the end of May for knowing when they can start their national championship. And once again, why the HHF does not propose to host the european Championship ? There will be no problem for the national team to play ? They did it in July 2003 for the under 16, it was surely a greater ( and less expensive ) initiative for the development of hockey in Greece than to appeal to the CAS
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Insider
05-24-2004 7:54 am
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I can assure Elisa that the HHF did NOT agree to the qualification process. The FIH has said which process did they want and the HHF continually said that they should not have to qualify since they were the hosts and NEVER had the hosts been required to qualify. (Anything that the FIH brought up thereafter was to meet their arguement like the USA qualifying through the PAN-AMs).
After much badgering the HHF said, IF we are forced to qualify then we would choose to play against the 12th ranked team. The FIH then went to the IOC executive and said that the HHF HAD AGREED to the qualifying procedure. After this the HHF tried to complain about the way it had been done without any progress which is why they went to CAS.
Have no doubt the HHF have failed their athletes and coaches who have given so much towards the development of their team.
But also have no doubt that the FIH have failed hockey. It does not matter which countries are now going to Athens, we should all be desperately worried that the lawmakers and policy makers of our sport have been the first ones to exclude a host from the Olympic Games. Our world governing body have shown that they have no interest in helping to develop the sport merely in keeping the top 10-12 nations happy. If you speak to a number of the members on the FIH Executive Board they are unhappy that Greece will not compete but aren't willing to fight for that belief. Some democracy where members are scared to speak against the President!
Unfortunately when the rules change during the game (Greece were awarded the Olympics in 199? why did the FIH not put forward that they should have to qualify then!) you then don't know what rules you are playing to.
As I said the HHF do not come out of this very well. There is no doubt that they have let down their players, coaches and supporters of hockey in Greece.
THE FIH HAVE LET DOWN HOCKEY!
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ZEUS
05-25-2004 6:53 am
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Reply to Podge
It seems that you lost your control. Read your thread again and see who is insulting who. Then read my thread again and try and answer to your self first. If the rationale for Sydney was correct all I am saying is that elements of hockey in SA today are the same and therefore maybe you should keep the team back again. But you all of sudden you mamble what the Greeks are saying for a long time now. The OG are not only for the medals but for the participation as well-good argument in your case but holds no water for Greece.
With regards to my ignorance on RSA sports development just tell me how many schools or clubs played hockey during the apartheid years in Soweto, Alexandra, Potsabello, Matubatuba or other townships. My remarks were not racial but simple facts. Taking up soccer it was a kind of protest by the blacks for a sport that white South Africans were not good at.
And something else. Stop refering to the passport story for the players of the Greek national team. No one, I repeat NO ONE got passport that was not according to law and there was no exception made for any one. What you refering to is propably the case of the USA team in Atlanta where my information says that they naturalised a few Dutch players with give away passports to make up their mens team. No one ever complained about this outrageous matter.
As far as Cyprus is concerned I dont know what this has to do with the price of the eggs but for your education the people of Cyprus denounced the proposed UN plan but not the UNIFICATION and this has been stated by its President over and over again. I suggest that you read the news up to where the dot indicates the end.
Totseens
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Podge
05-26-2004 1:34 am
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Zeus
Its easy to choose the posts and points you like to respond to. Your comments are not an accurate assesment of the situation in South AFrica, while you again choose to attack a country that hand no responsibility of either the decision or the development (or lack thereof) of the game in Greece, or how your federation chooses to handle the impasse.
I dont see any need to defend South African hockey any more then I have, as it has no bearing on the issue at hand, and I am obviously dealing with someone who cant stand to look critically at himself. The answers to your questions lies in the make up of the team, which reveals a succesfull development process and the simple fact that unlike Greece, South AFrica is going to the Olympics as a competitor.
My comments regarding Cyprus are misplaced, but that was an attempt to indicate to you how badly misplaced your comments are. Its simple to attempt to discredit a person by making wild statements.Perceptions from CNN and the internet are not always the correct ones, however, I have chosen to deal with the facts at hand with no satisfactory answers.
I am frankly tired of this debate, which has clearly detoriated into a slanging match concerning issues that have nothing to do with the issue of Greek Hockey's failure to qualify for the Olympics.
Again, my sincere condolences to the players who South AFricans can ironically feel for, as South Africa(although we had qualified as African Chamos) were excluded from attending the games in 2000. To the HHF and individuals like yourself, you need to sort your own hockey affairs out before taking a swipe at other countries!
Word wakker ou seun!
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ZEUS
05-26-2004 7:37 am
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Fo Podge
No harm in debating. It helps to see through thoughts and ideas sometimes persons too. Hope you will enjoy watching the games. Lakker slaap
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Rhino
05-27-2004 11:34 am
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To Podge
I appreciate really your behaviour ! The only time where I was disapointed by your say was when you made your statement on Cyprus, but thanks, you have reconized it was displaced. You are really a "noble" man and I would like to have the oportunity to meet you. As European, during the Madrid Tournament, I was supporter of Belgium who is a litlle country able to compete with great, during their match with South Africa. But now, I will not be ashamed of encouraging your national team when they will come to the Olympic Games in athens.
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Bokke
05-28-2004 5:33 am
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PODGE.
Stay to the topic hockey, don't bring politcs into the debate. Firstly because that will make us no better than the politians. Secondly there is alot of history, that we don't know about. Have you read the Anna plan for Cyprus, "NO" then don't critise Cyprus, they did what they had to do, South Africa yes has and still is in an unfortunate situation but time will balance things out. Also why the did the SA Olympic Comitee not allow SA to participate in Sydney, it was political, not matter what you say.
So let's stick to sports, otherwise this will get nasty.
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Podge
05-28-2004 12:40 pm
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Bokke (Proteas Actually)
Do I see your tongue flicking out and finger wagging from side to side, in the guise of PW? Whats the deal with the veiled threats...'this will get nasty'. The topic is was and will always be hockey, I was reacting to comments made by another person.We are all allowed to debate here, and in so doing enlighten all of our positions. Politics was dragged in by Zeus, so have a go at him/her....
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Rhino
05-28-2004 3:15 pm
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Poor Podge
Poor podge, you suffer all the displace remarks of someones, you made only one, you apologize and every body shatter you.Yes let us stay in sport as said boke, and don't go to a tribunal for qualifying, do it on the field !!
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sf player
06-01-2004 2:14 am
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come on sf ,
imagine if sf has been asked to play wc football as qualifier and then they fail to qualify. can u think of wc 2010 in sf with host country.
sf give up u place to greeks and show to world u are great sporting nation. let hockey n oly dreams live on.
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bokke
06-01-2004 4:17 am
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What do I mean...Podge
bPodge what do i mean by "this will get nasty", is that the debate of hockey will get lost, and everyone will focus on other issues, as we know politics in never plesant.
Enough Said on this topic from me.
GOOD LUCK to the South African Boys, make us proud. To the girls you did SA proud in Greece, in Februrary let see it again in August.
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...
06-01-2004 3:14 pm
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Podge
Podge, being "sincere" doesn't suit you!!!!
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Rhino
06-01-2004 3:25 pm
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To all Podge Opponents
First "sf player" don't compare Soccer World Cup with Olympic Games, because I don't think that any federation will organize a world cup in a country with only 2 stadiums and a Half ! Give us the chance to organize the European (or mediteranean Championship) in Greece, and I think that Greece will be automatically qualified. Secund, I don't know what to say because the debate seems over and that the olympics games are ready to start. See you in 2008
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Podge
06-01-2004 8:47 pm
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...
Great post...Real addition to the conversation. I am sincere but unapologetic about other people's mistakes. The Debates dead dude...
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sf player
06-02-2004 5:31 am
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podge
debate is not over. it will linger forever and host nation qualification will many time in many sports. greeks are first scrapegoat. it can be any country in any sports . so let greeks play
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vassileios gerontas
06-02-2004 9:51 am
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to my fellow countrymen.....
i haved played hockey for the last 10 years and i have never seen anything like this.i think the greek team should participate in the games its all about experince.if we take it away from them now we take it away from them for ever.
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ZEUS
06-04-2004 1:31 am
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For Vassili Gerontas
Hi Vassili
Are you still in Rhodes? South Africa lost a great keeper but Greece too. Why you did not get involved in Greek hockey? I am sure you can help in the future if you still have the urge for it. Greece has a great coach -Cedric-and himself having been a goalie for India will appreciate your talent.
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ZEUS
06-07-2004 7:12 am
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For Vassili Gerontas
Give me your email and I will contact you directly.
Regards
Zeus
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vangeli
07-05-2004 4:00 pm
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hockey 2004
don't you think its time to regard with new glasses greece.
greek football was nothing .......
what about today.
give the guys a chance
efcharisto
thanks
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Pierre Meurisse
07-06-2004 4:23 pm
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To Vangelis, To play Hockey in Grecce
I am not afraid to put my name in this debate, and now try to explain why the Junior team who won the Greek Junior Shampionship in 2004 on the field could not get the title because my two sons who got their greek licence in 2001 whan I move from France for professional resons ( they were 13 and 14 years old ) have been contested by the president of another club and that now we are obliged to go to court for justifying the licence that the greek federation gave us. Give my kids a chance, please !
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Pierre Meurisse
10-05-2004 12:30 am
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Decision of the greek tribunal of sport
Our club has gone to court for contesting the decision of the HHF to cancel in June 2004 the licences they gave them in September 2001, following the victory of the Club in the Junior Championship. And the Greek tribunal for Sport Arbitration has decided yesterday that the decision of the Federation was wrong and that the licence of my children were valid. Hopefully there is a justice, but what a lost of time ! Why don't we use all this energy for helping the clubs to develop instead of trying to destroy tem. This is my wish for the next board of the HHF, help the clubs !
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