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Vamos
03-20-2001 2:25 am
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In regards to "is it fair for the new National women?s coach to have to work with the group of players that the retiring coach selected and carded"
I don't think it will really make a big difference, seeing as there is not a lot of depth for hockey in Canada.
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John Doe
03-20-2001 4:00 am
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Well Rav I think you have out done yourself this time!! Where to start???? Having a coach decide the Carding list is the stupidst thing i have ever heard. Fieldhockey Canada has must have put alot of thinking into that one! No wonder our team has been droping in the world Rankings. I see we tied the US team last week. WOW They should be so proud. As long as we are happy with 2nd place in this country we will never advance. As for players retiring, if a player wants to retire they should not recieve any carding money unless they are staying involved with program.(Coaching Jrs, etc) From what I understand a certain player on the team had made it clear that she was to retire very soon after the carding cycle was to be announced. I'm sure this certain person will explain why she would like to keep her carding and I will love to hear it!
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Jarod
03-20-2001 2:13 pm
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Excellent article. You are very correct in your assessment of "challenging the system." Where would society be over the years and even sports without challenging or questioning the hierarchy. Would South Africa be free of apartheid if they didn't challenge the system. Take for example the New Jersey Devils winning the Stanley Cup. If the players didn't challenge their then coach Robbie Ftorek, would they have won the Cup? I doubt it. The players wanted Larry Robinson because he was the one who kept them together. As soon as the switch happened, New Jersey became world champs. I'm not saying be physically or verbally agressive, I'm just saying questioning one can open one's eyes about what he/she is doing. Success has never worked in a dictatorship syle approach. Working together and partnering with one another is what team work is all about. Leadership and team work is what makes a successful program. We should work together from top (the decision makers) down to the bottom (the players).
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Observer
03-20-2001 2:23 pm
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Shouldn't it be consider fraud if someone is accepting money for a 'job' they no longer have?
The Federal Gov't goes after people who claim EI fraudulently, why shouldn't they go after an athlete who collects carding money after he/she has retired from the team?
A litte extreme? I don't see the difference really.
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Slick Rick
03-20-2001 2:53 pm
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Rav, you strike on some fundamental issues that seem to consistently come up within FHC. Bravo for bringing up some difficult questions in a forum like this, as you are no doubt going to have pot-shots taken at you for what you wrote. It takes a strong person to bring up hard questions like these, and on that note, you are a rockstar.
I don't know how you go about tackling this issue. One one hand, the card should go to an active team member, doing the training, and attending practices. On the other, the recent increases in AAP levels provides an outgoing athlete with a "thank-you for your service" present for 8-10 months, until the next carding cycle begins. In many cases, this "present" can be justified.
Although we are quick to slag the women's program, lest we not forget that there are at least 3-4 guys on the Sydney 2000 team collecting carding cheques until this June. Same situation exactly, except you can justify the carding cheques, because the men's program has actually qualified for a major event in the past 5 years, unlike......you know who!
I guess it comes down to the point that it is hard to time an athlete's retirement with the carding cycle. You couldn't ask 4 athletes to go to Sydney 2000, not being carded. That would be ludicrous. Perhaps there is a better way that this system can be implemented, perhaps correlating the carding cycle to major qualifiers or championships?
Regardless, I look forward to seeing what people say on this forum. I bet the women are excited about the future, now that they are going to get a coach that can actually lead them to a TOURNAMENT, not just qualifier after qualifier after qualifier. Good luck ladies!
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??
03-20-2001 8:41 pm
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So i dont understand! The carding list was made picked by the coach and then she calls it quits! Who is responsible!!
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comments...
03-20-2001 9:05 pm
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my only comment has to do with coaches slecting carding. having one person decide these things - carding, selction, etc - is ridiculous. there NEEDS to be a selection commitee for such large and important decisions. this methodolgy in slection - having a SELECTION PANEL instead of one biased opinion - occurs all over the world. it is time it is implemented in Canada... any thoughts???
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John Smith
03-21-2001 12:11 am
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I agree with that last comment. Carding is a very important issue and there has to be more then one person decideing who gets it.
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Juan
03-21-2001 12:56 am
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Who is this Ravi fellow? I enjoy reading his articles. I am an outsider looking in and it seems to me that there is to much politics in your countries hockey program. Makes for great entertainment. Cheers!
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Umpyca
03-21-2001 11:23 am
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Is there a player next in line to take over for the player retiring? I am sure that there is a mechanism in place, since there were players that didn't make it for the carding this time around. What's FHC's position?
I am sure they read these comments as well.
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Food for thought
03-21-2001 4:19 pm
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The carding cycle for national team athletes presents a problem for the integrity of the national program. Carding is not and never was to be a "present" for retiring athletes. Carding is for elite athletes training as part of the national program. Athletes are paid to train, not play.Failing to meet these requirements should result in "decarding" or a loss of support. Athletes must in good faith continue to train with the program as the priority. Retirement during the carding cycle is a "Catch 22", as I belive this card may not be reissued to another athlete in that period. Perhaps what could have been done was to ask permission from Sport Canada to extend the carding period until after the Women's qualifer. This would also serve as a start up for the new Head Coach in April.The incoming coach will now be saddled with the current list of carded athletes.As for slick ric, I'm not sure that because the men went ot Sydney or the World's justifies carding money being given to athletes no longer contributing by retiring...carding is not a reward for getting to the major tournaments. While the women have not performed well on the international scene in the past 5 years, this has nothing to do with the philosophy of carding.
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Umpyca
03-21-2001 6:13 pm
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Has this athlete been approached to take themselves off the carding list? Would not their own conscience prevail and give back any furure funding to FHC and they in turn could offer it as a grant to the next player(s) in line? DO we have any "new" coaches lined up or are the assistant coaches moving up?
[B]Editor:[/B]
To my understanding, no athlete has made official their plans to retire - and as such the athlete has a right to continue to train with the team, and receive carding.
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Wonder Women
03-21-2001 8:30 pm
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I love this article cause just recently i have seen that our program has 3 times more problems then the mens. This carding makes me really (angry). Especialy these players that are signing Carding agreements and only playing for two months of the year and then retireing. If you are gonna retire make it public before you retire. Giving you a carding cheque for two months and throwing it away will not do this country any good. As well i am glad that the current coach is done. I'm sick of seeing talented players calling it quits. I am sick of seeing our team go to qualifier after qualifier. I want to see results. Ravi I love your articles. I am happy that you are asking these diffucult questions. Its about time some one did? Planetfieldhockey great job! I love your site!
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Jessica
03-21-2001 8:51 pm
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Hey Stud
Nice article!!!
I love this site. Keep it up boys!
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Howie
03-22-2001 4:22 pm
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When are they expecting to announce the new coach for the women. Hire Pete Milkovich!!!!!! I'm sure he could bring the team off there butts!
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Here Here
03-22-2001 4:41 pm
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With the talent pool in Canada right now, Peter could definately take our women's team to the top 6 in the world within 18 months. But I am sure that Peter has better things to do with his time! Why would he want to bother getting involved with FHC again?
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Howie
03-22-2001 8:27 pm
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Well the reason why i said he would be great for the job is that it will be a tough job getting the womens team to the top of the world. Not many people have the passion for the game and the love for the maple leaf as he does. Like here here said he probably does have better things todo. Whats next for our womens team????
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Outsider
03-22-2001 10:48 pm
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My suggestion to the men's program is to get a outside (foreign) coach. The real hockey is played in Europe and Asia and it would certainly benefit Canada with a coach from the outside. Not only at the Olympics but I have observed at tournaments as well that Canada plays too defensive. Look at the European , Asian teams they not only pass but they dodge through defenders and play good attacking hockey. In order for Canada to succeed they need to do change their style!
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Wonder Women
03-26-2001 12:07 am
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I was realy dissapointed with planetfieldhockey. REcently i sent a comment that i wrote which meant alot to me. I came back on this site to read it and it was butchered!! I'm sorry if i mentioned a name(Womens team Coach) When i heard that you can write you opion on this site. I was realy ahppy people can express whatever they want. I soon realised that you guys are afraid of hurting peoples feelings. Well thats to bad! I will never return to this site.
[B]Editor:[/B]
Wonder Women.
Your previous comment was edited because it contained profanity, and also a personal comment which was not appropriate.
We want to offer a forum for open discussion so people can express themselves, but we must maintain standards of communication. Thanks for your feedback - it is important.
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interested
03-26-2001 9:41 am
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Who is this/those retiring players everyone keeps talking about? I have never seen a name mentioned since these comments started over a month ago? Has anyone approached the carded players on the women's team to see if anyone is retiring? I have heard things also and we all assume there are retirements pending, assume is ASS-U-ME as we all know. It's almost 4 months into the year and not the 2 months everyone is talking about, anything happened?
I agree that maybe the carding cycle could have been extended or been done on a 6 month cycle with renewable carding for the athletes selected for the next tour/tournament and those that wish to move on could retire when the new training starts with the new coach at the beginning of June. I am sure all possibilities have been exhausted. I know in the past that athletes that retired early just passed on their monthly training money to someone else that was designated, that is at least an alternative.
Interesting comments Ravi but really,... how much do you really know about FHC politics, you were picked up for the Olympics, played a few minutes and have reaped the rewards. I don't question your committment or training but you should understand the politics involved!?.
But way to go out on a limb, though youseem to be questioning the women's program when the exact same situation is happening with your program, are you as upset and invovled there?
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maple leaf
03-26-2001 9:54 am
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Womder women, are you just looking to jump on the band wagon? Have you seen anyone retire or are you just angry because you have been overlooked? It is no one's business when people retire, what about for personal reasons, family problems etc..? Are you then going to trash them too. The women need change but during this time we need to support them and the new coach and program. They have a huge task ahead of them in trying to get to the World Cup! Go Canada!
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retiring?
03-26-2001 9:57 am
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who or whom is/are retiring from the women's team? I haven't heard anything and I train with some of these players quite frequently. Just curious if we all really know or is it all just a rumour?
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Ravi.K
03-26-2001 12:32 pm
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In response to "interseted." I dont think i need to defend my play to you. And if you want me to you can write your real name and we can discuss it. Yes i agree i did not play much at the olympics. I did not enjoy that and am not proud of it. But thats sport. Its not what i want its what is needed for the team. As for the politics, I have been on the junior team for 3 years. I have seen my share of politics. As for the mens program i will get to that aswell. I'm sure all of the readers except you will agree that there are more problems in the womens program then the mens. I just want to see our teams on the top of the hockey world.
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interested2
03-26-2001 1:28 pm
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An issue or two have been brought up in the above article which evoked many comments, and to these issues I would also like to express my comments, being an outsider, I asked myself the same question as Ravi posed above...Is it fair for the incoming coach to have to work with the selected athletes from the previous...
Well, yes and no! YES because these athletes were selected for a reason by the present coach and assistants as well as from the regionalised coaches, this was not a one person decision. No one has said that the new coach will have to stick with that decision, they may very well come in and change 90% of the team but that will be their decision.
It WOULDN'T be fair if they just accepted the team as is, because you never know how much someone has improved in 4 months. I would like to think that the new coach would give all athletes (carded or non-carded) a chance to prove themselves, so the complaining non-carded athletes will have nothing to protest about.
I'm sure they will complain that it's not fair that they have to train and not be carded, but heh... what did are Canadian athletes do before carding existed. If you really want to make the team, you wouldn't use carding money as an excuse to train, you would just train to prove the SELECTORS they were wrong to omit you in the first place.
And to the comments about retiring and keeping your carding money.....WHO is RETIRING??? Haven't seen a single name here people.
ps to the people running this site, GREAT JOB!!!
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interested2
03-26-2001 1:51 pm
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Ravi, you do not have to defend your play to "īnterested", but I WOULD like to know exactly how much do you know about the women's program since you have never been a part of it?
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observer
03-26-2001 2:01 pm
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In response to Ravi's comments, I find it hard to see any differences that currently exist between the men's and women's programs. Both are in the midst of a major changeover with regards to hiring a new head coach, and both programs seem to have athletes within the program waiting to see who is appointed before making any decisions on continuing public.
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Re:interseted 2
03-26-2001 2:05 pm
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I am not a part of the womens program either and am glad cause i know what teh poor girls are going through.
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Ravi.K
03-26-2001 2:07 pm
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I have not made any comments about that womens program. I have only asked questions about it. Feel free to answer any of them if you know the answers. We have so many women playing in this country and not being in the top 16 is problem. Dont you agree? Lets not argue about each other.
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New Coach
03-26-2001 3:34 pm
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This womens team hasnt had the results that we as a country see aceptable. So i dont think its fair to a new coach to work with players that have been picked by somone else. She might want to start with a young group and train them. But what is done is done. If someone makes the team and is not carded will just have to tough it out.
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Y. Takahashi
03-26-2001 4:06 pm
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With respect to the selection of coaches both to the men's and women's national sides, I personally feel the suggestion made to get "foreign" coaches is an excellent one. The powerhouses in Asia,Europe and Autralia can add so much depth to our game here that passing up the opportunity to hire these people is very short-sighted and may have underlying motives of politics attached to it.
In looking for our own program developer, I have had several international coaches apply ,2 who were level 5 qualified. I believe they also had applied for the national program but I am not clear if they even got an interview. We hope to hire one of these to boost our program to develop not only the athletes but our aspiring coaches as well.
Canada needs to take a critical look at our current system and work with the rest of the world if we ever want to be competitive against them.
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insider
03-26-2001 4:52 pm
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just to let everyone know.. the knew coach for the women's team will be from another country. There were 11 applicants, it has been short listed to 5 and they are all from out of the country. So, that problem is solved. The retiring coach didn't lose her marbles in selecting the 22 carded athletes, therefore the new coach is not working with inexperienced players. They may make some changes like other countries have in the past and I am sure any coach would make changes as you select different athletes for different reasns to make up a TEAM. GO Canada in your quest to be at the top of your game again!
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maximus
03-26-2001 5:00 pm
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To John Doe, interesting comments. Who is this "certain player"you are refering too? Maybe we can ask her directly or get her to clarify the situation/comments. Might as well go to the horse's mouth if we can find out who it is. I am sure they would want to clear the air if they knew all this was going on.
I think this program has a lot of issues that need to be resolved but by slagging everything and everyone we are only hindering the process.
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awesome site
03-26-2001 5:06 pm
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hey guys! just to let you know I love the site and the debates/comments. I have put my share of input into these discussions and like the forum. It is to bad that you do get the odd "village idiot"but hey isn't that free speech? Keep up the good work and way to go in Jamaica and the coverage you gave the tourney!
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Josie
03-26-2001 6:37 pm
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I have to agree with Ravi. There are alot of people out there like "interested" that are not happy that this topic is being discussed. Maybe they have somthing to hide. Although Ravi does not play in the womens program. Does he have to, to understand what is going on. I'm glad this is being discussed in the open and not behind closed doors. You are pretty brave taking shots at him and not even putting your name behind your brave little comments.I dont want to argue with you becasue my father once told me "never argue with a stupid person, cause they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"
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interested
03-26-2001 7:38 pm
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Josie, I am not taking shots at Ravi. He is a fine player and paid his dues I simply put the question to him about politics. I agree that you shouldn't argue with stupid people... so who is arguing? You are. I have not played internationally either but I do play club and am involved with provincial associations and politics. Ravi I apologise for the comment I mean no disrespect but I think it is important to look inward first and at the men's program.
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Ravi.K
03-26-2001 8:00 pm
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To "interested" no offense taken. All people have there own opinons. I agree the Mens program has its flaws. We have to deal with all these problems. I will be writing articles on the Mens program aswell. I dont want to come across as attacking the Womens program. We have lots of talented players in this country. I want to see our teams sitting on the top!
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player
03-27-2001 12:45 am
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just to answer some of the comments put forward... i am an aspiring national player (who was not involved in the selection process for the americas cup) who is looking forward to the arrival of the new coach. it hardly matters to me that i am not carded... all i want to do is impress the new coach and gain an oppertunity to play with the senior team. the new coach will (hopefully) give a lot of players in this country a fresh chance... if these players are truly passionate about playiing for canada, i hardly think they will be griping about not having a card; instead, they will be thrilled that they will have been given an oppertunity to join the national team and perhaps represent thei country. when the next carding cycle comes around, perhaps then they will be able to win a card and be rewarded for their efforts. until then, international play would certainly suffice as an award!
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badasscndian
03-27-2001 12:47 am
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I just have two sense to add to this topic, since it is a hot topic. I definately agree with many of the other individuals out there that we should get someone from outside the country to come coach our national teams. I have been coached by Dru and she is good, she knows what she is talking about. She listens to her players, and I think that the women respect and trust her. But we do need some new blood, she had her chance to get the program going. Now its someone elses turn. Nobody can really blame anyone for the lapse in our program, we just don't an aggressive style here in canada. Nor do we have the facilities to train our national athletes in the off season (all the snow on the ground). and here where i live there is alot of snow on the ground for the majority of the year, or just too damn cold. And only 1 turf pitch. In order for us to get back in to the top 10 or 15 even, we need to have more training facilities across the country, not just Vancouver and Toronto. Anyway, I think the women had a pretty good tournament down in Jamaica, I think they just might do something at the next qualifier. Good luck girls!!
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interested2
03-27-2001 11:34 am
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to "player" great attitude!!
That's what all players not currently on the squad should be aspiring for. Good luck to you in the future training camps.
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koolkid
03-27-2001 2:11 pm
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I agree, I am trying to get chosen to the senior squad and don't need carding to do it! It would obviously be nice but I think if you are good enough it all comes in due time. The team made changes this year and carded a couple of young players that I train with who had been doing their training and now have a shot at the senior team. The coach brought new talent in (2 new keepers) which is good because they are young and can learn from the older players and then move in and compete for a spot. I think FHC is doing the right thing by changing the structure and format of their association and I look foward to being a part of it, carded or not.
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Thinking out loud
03-30-2001 10:35 am
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The hiring of the new Women's National Coach is a political hot potato. Firstly, the common business practice of doing an internal search for candidates was eliminated and FHC went immediately to an external or international search. The message then - those in Canada qualified were passed over for something bigger and better out there. How does the CAC respond having spent thousands of dollars developing elite coaches only to be told by national associations that we need a foreigner. It seems to be trendy in women's field hockey to hire Australians. England and the US have gone down that road. But what both of these countries have managed to do is retain the value of having a female coach. A move by FHC away from a female Head Coach would be a clear vote of non confidence to female coaches throughout the sport. Are we prepared for the long term effects of such a decision?
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Badasscndian
03-30-2001 2:15 pm
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in response to "thinking out loud," I don't think it will matter what sex the next coach will be, here in canada, there are some great male coaches. At UBC, and here where I live, one of my coaches last summer was a man and he was great. Maybe thats what our women need is a little bit of the men's game in them. All us women know that the men's game is different, they are stronger, faster, and for some reason tend to be a lot more intense with the emotions running high, all the time. Even in league play, not just at the provincial level, or the national level, but from the start. I don't really see that on the women's side, don't get me wrong, women are intense on the field, but not really in league play in our respective cities, unless its the one big game of the season. I think that being sexist, or having a "clear vote of non confidence to female coaches," shouldn't even matter when choosing someone to lead our country. Who cares.
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maple leaf
04-02-2001 8:44 am
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I agree that the next coach should be simply qualified. male or female we need direction and if there is a qualified female FHC will chose that applicant. If it is a male then they will be chosen. You don't want a coach taking over your team by default if they are second in line but are a woman so you pick them. Would you want the number 2 choice in a draft if you could have the number one choice and pick your top candidate?
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Canadian
04-02-2001 12:42 pm
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It is really interesting to read all the comments that people have made. I am excited at the prospect of a new coach for our women's program and I don't think that it could have come at a better time. There has been a large diffrence in the women' and men's programs for a long time and that is that women's field hockey is a CIAU sport and for the last million years the head coach of the Women's National Team has been a coach of a Uni program. I think that this a a major conflict of interest. Can a coach watch all the players in the country that she needs to while coaching her own Uni team? Those players that have the national team head coach as their coach at Uni get to see the coach daily and recieve intstruction from her. When it comes time for selection the coach has seen her players a lot and she has also had the opportunity to mold them into the players she wants. When other players come to the camps they are at a disadvantage, they don't know the stickwork drills, the footwork drills etc., they come to the camps and look like they have never played before. Now that the head coach will no longer be a Uni coach I think that the players in this country will get a new look over and they will all start to be on the same page so we can develop as a country, which is what we want, isn't it? Also, who cares the about the sex of the coach, man or woman, if they will raise the standing of Canada internationally that is great. Also, the coaches in Canada that are being developed and are getting their levels do not have the international experience (some coaches do have it and good for them). I know that if you are a player sometimes that doesn't make the best coach but it can. I think that if a coach from Canada were to be selected we would stay where we are now. A coach from outside Canada especially from the number one hockey nation in the world wouldn't be a bad addition to the country. Then they can train the coaches in Canada that have elite coaching aspirations to see the game differently too. I love this site!!!!!!!!!!
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Observer
04-02-2001 4:38 pm
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Good point at the end Canadian. Not only could an international, whom he or she may be, possibly bring the the program on the world scene; but he/she could introduce Canadian to new and proven coaching techniques. The more skilled coaches the better, particularly at the junior levels where we need it most!
It's an exciting prospect!
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go canucks
04-02-2001 8:59 pm
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give rosco the job! the problem with the womens team is their one on one skills. they don't have anyone that will get the ball and beat the last 1 or 2 players and score. they have no problem moving the ball back and through the midfield but its their offensive ball control that is horrid. ross was one of the best one on one players canada ever had. give him some time and everyone would see a vast improvement.
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I Agree
04-02-2001 11:58 pm
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Roscoe Rutledge would be a great choice as coach for the women's team, but let's be honest, he makes 10 times more money selling sticks & team gear to the women than he would coaching them. I think that he wouldn't touch this position with a 10 foot pole, unless he got free reign to reposition the internal structure of FHC. The first thing he would do would be to burn all of the old driftwood that sitting around at the FHC office in Ottawa.........He would bring in Milko, Bomber, John D'S, Birdman et al, and then we would finally see some positive forward momentum from the people at the National Head Office.
Go Rut Go You Beauty!
[B]Editor:[/B]
This article has been edited
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Starboy
04-03-2001 4:33 pm
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Ravi causing controversy again? Ha Ha - thats the
Ravi that I know
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ASU
04-09-2001 7:04 pm
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Does anyone know who the new coach is, for mens and womens team????????
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x49
