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USA: Young men meet resistance to their playing traditional 'women's' sports There are 70 comments on this articlex70
United States
United States
December 8, 2003 4 out of 5
Pocono Record
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Gabe Grab considers himself lucky. He didn't have to wear a skirt.

"I got made fun of for that all the time," he said. "Even though I never had to wear it."

Grab, 17, minded the net for the Central Dauphin High School field hockey team for four years and, as its only male player, was the object of suspicion and ridicule for playing against girls. While the sport is popular with men overseas and a thriving club system exists in parts of California, there are few alternatives for Grab. Fortunately, his position in goal allowed him to wear shorts.

Unlike girls who fight convention to play on their high school football team or grapple with boys on the wrestling mat, boys like Grab meet with resistance from opposing coaches and parents — sometimes even their own school districts — rather than admiration.

Strangely, it is the Equal Rights Amendment to the state constitution, a triumph of the women's rights movement, that provides Grab the opportunity to play.

Though individual districts can set their own policy, the Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic Association, the governing body of high school athletics in the state, is barred from establishing a rule preventing boys from playing on girls' teams and vice versa due to a 1975 state court injunction based on the Equal Rights Amendment.

After struggling through a joyless football season as a freshman, Peter Schauf decided to play volleyball, a sport he loved. His suburban Philadelphia school, Harriton, did not have a boys' team. Presented with the option of playing boys volleyball for sister school Lower Merion or playing on the girls' team, Schauf opted to stay put.

"The whole point of playing high school sports is playing for your school," he said.

Opposing coaches, concerned about safety, objected. When he began to play, they suggested playing Schauf on the back line, where he wouldn't be able to attack the net. Why? At 6'1", Schauf had an easier time rising above the net — which is 7½ inches lower for girls than for boys — than his opponents.

At the heart of the issue is gender equality, safety and fairness. Supporters of boys like Grab and Schauf say they should have the same access to sports granted to female athletes while opponents say introducing boys to a traditionally all-girls sport poses a safety hazard and ruins the sanctity of women's sports.

"Physically, your average boy is going to be bigger and stronger than your average girl," said Athena Yiamouyiannis, executive director of the National Association for Girls and Women in Sports. "The intent of sex-segregated athletic programs is to provide both genders with a chance to compete."

Yiamouyiannis compared boys competing with girls to eliminating weight classes in wrestling.

"It's like a 115-pound wrestler competing against a 200-pound wrestler," she said.

Title IX, the landmark 1972 education rule against sex discrimination in any educational program or activity receiving federal aid, does not necessarily apply in these cases, according to Jocelyn Samuels, vice president for education and employment at the National Women's Law Center.

"What schools are required to do is provide equal opportunity to participate in sports for boys and girls," she said.

As long as equal competitive opportunities exist for both genders, "a school does not have to have sex-segregated teams at all," Samuels said.

While the state's equal rights amendment was primarily focused on women's rights, PIAA legal counsel Alan Boynton said the issue of boys playing on girls' teams may have been an "unintended consequence" of the amendment.

"If you prevent boys and girls from competing or practicing, you're making a distinction based on gender, and that's discrimination" according to the injunction, he said.

Massachusetts likewise allows boys to compete with girls, leading to a venomous debate over Bradley Bell, a former South African youth national team member, playing field hockey.

Bell played only his freshman year at Amherst-Pelham Regional High School in 2001 then moved on to a men's club team in Boston.

Bell's former coach, Deb Reed, said he dealt with abuse from opposing fans and unwanted media attention when all he wanted was to play the game.

"It's tough for a 14-year-old to deal with all that," she said.

Elsewhere, the New York State Education Department's "mixed competition" guidelines provide girls with the opportunity to play on boys teams, but allow a school administrator to bar a boy from competing on a girls team if he would adversely affect the level of competition.

While Schauf had an affinity for volleyball, Grab began his field hockey career with a few friends on seventh-grade dare. He's the only one who stuck.

His dedication paid off. He spent two months in 2002 touring Europe as part of the men's Under-16 national team.

His high school teammates, he said, have supported him. Even many opposing players didn't mind testing their skills against a boy.

Opposing coaches are less supportive.

"A couple of times they wouldn't shake my hand," he said.

Grab doesn't see the debate as a big deal.

"I think that the girls can play on the football team, so it should go both ways," he said. "It's only a high school field hockey game."
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Comments on this article
US Visitor
12-11-2003  3:41 pm
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Mens Hockey
As a foreigner to these shores i find it strange that a game played by the native americans, specifically their male warriors before the invasion of the europeans is not played by men currently. In virtually all other countries and cultures Hockey is played by male and female alike ....hmmm.

Anyway if the US society demand equality then equality they should have ! If these guys get to play hockey then huzzah ! and more power to them !

My initial interest in hockey came when i read a notice on my school notice board asking for players, when my PE teacher saw me reading it he told me it was a girls game and was a waste of time ! Since then i have played and coached up to international level and travelled the world.

I should thank him for his bigoted attitude as it helped me decide to turn up and give it a go !
Chris P
12-11-2003  4:25 pm
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hey me too!
My name is Chris Pothier, 17, senior at Sandwich high school in Massachuseets, and I have gone through the same problems and ridicule as Grad did but I did wear the skirt. That was by far the worst thing in the world, granted its just a piece or clothing but the difference between a skirt and shorts makes all the difference I guess. I just finished my 4 years of playing high school hockey and like Barb ply for minnutmen inddoor and outdoor. The only thing I have to say to Grab and al the other guys wanting to play is, PLAY! All the harshness I got in and out of school made me want to work harder, play stronger and be the best, today I say that was the best decision of my life, playing starting hockey. Ive been to France to play, and now on the NAPL boston team for indoor, This year I plan on going out to california and tryouts for the U-21 Men's National Team. If all goes well, making that team will have made everything I went though worth my wild, and I csay thanks to everyone who was against me becuase it gave me the motivation to prove you wrong and do my absolute best!
Al Mattei
12-12-2003  8:56 am
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Boys' varsity field hockey
It is becoming a big enough issue that folks in the hockey community need to deal with it. How about it, MIAA? Boys' varsity field hockey. It just may help upgrade facilities so that a small school's one multiuse grass field may just have to be made into NexTurf or something of that ilk so that two genders' worth of soccer AND field hockey teams need to share it.
Phil A. Hignell
12-15-2003  8:21 pm
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Boys play Hockey here, Girls too
It will always take pioneers to break barriers.

Our local scene has only Girl's Hockey in High School. But our Jr Club, "Kitchener-Waterloo Olympic Hockey" is Co-e on all teams from ages 5-17. No problems at all.

We even have a 7-a-side Co-ed Turf tournament at the end of September and the only rule, is a maximum of 3 boys on the field at once. 2 years ago, one school sent 2 teams and the boys insisted on wearing kilts. All had a great time. [We are 1.5 hrs North West of Buffalo, 3 hours east of Detroit, if you want to join the tournament.]

Keep up the push and Hockey will grow on all levels.

Phil
In the know
12-16-2003  12:35 am
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Blame it on Constance and Roop Singh
The actual blame should be put on Constance Applebee and Roop Singh.
Constance Applebee cause she found time only for women and never included men into the game or rather had a malefsa counterpart show the game to men.

Roop Singh cause he was never satisfied after scoring so many goals against USA in the Los Angeles olympics.. I mean..23-1 ... They could have easily kept it as low as 12-18.
there was no need to make it close to 2 dozen and totally demoralize the mens hockey in the USA.

cheers
Janice leber
12-16-2003  8:15 am
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It makes me so sad that our country have been through so many obstacles to achieve equal rights for men & women alike over the years. It breaks my heart that some of my sister coaches at high school and collegiate level and people with power in field hockey here are destroying the spirit of what we all stand for, and marches I have attended at the equal right movement. We have to change this attitude my friends at the sake of the sport. I know some of my sisters hate men getting involve with this sport here in this country. Please, look beyond the pettiness because we are bigger then this, and don't forget-If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.
Janice
Harper
12-16-2003  8:54 am
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If the men wear shorts everywhere else in the world, why would they make these poor guys wear kilts......these coaches know it is only to make someone feel less than! That is wrong. Let them play, let them wear shorts........and again, it is just a game!!
Al Mattei
12-16-2003  8:59 am
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Wait a sec ...
Is this "the" Janice Leber? Please give my best to Jen Nessel when you next run into her. She did a great job with the Lysistrata project.

And it is great to hear that someone, besides myself, believes that equality -- and Title IX -- is a two-way street.
george ferreira
12-16-2003  9:29 am
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re: 23-1
Actually, the Indian team defeated the U.S. 24-1, not 23-1.
scots boy
12-16-2003  9:30 am
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wearing kilts
where I come from men in kilts are seen as highly virile and masculine so lets have more of it (there's something liberating about having the breeze about your knees!).

As Sean Connery once said when asked if he enjoyed wearing a kilt and did he feel truly at home with tartan (plaid) "Yesh!"

Another famous scot said ... "The dilithium crystals are about to explode - the engines canny take it captain!"
J'Accuse
12-18-2003  1:22 pm
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Did Dyand Chand run up the score?
NateCoolidge
12-18-2003  4:56 pm
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Its obvious...
I played in high school, and my senior year was with Chris (above). Who cares bout the skirt/kilt. Its the uniform chosen, so you wear it. If the team all wanted to wear shorts, they could... i think. I made the US Senior Squad last year, and have made one realization since. The meen get nothing from this USFHA because if Men's hockey gets good, then nobody will care about the women, no matter how they do. Its evident in every sport that it is more fun to watch men compete than women. mens games are faster and different than womens games. Women's Major League Soccer? Failed. WNBA? Oh yeah I think i saw some hilights on ESPNews. But seriously. If the men were created equal, then the women know whats coming. They are holding us down for that reason. Its BS, but thats the way it is. The mens program has to get whatever it can from its governing boy, and do the rest on its own.
Mr Reality
12-18-2003  10:21 pm
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Nate: the testosterone has caused your brain to melt. Grow up
Spouting off about men being better than women will get you no where. Unfortunately for you, you do not have the same oportunities as women, but you obviously do what you can to make yourself a better player. The biggest problem with your argument is that you compare the dollars spent for the mens game versus the womens game. It will never be equal, there are 100 times as many women members in the usfha. Therefore 100 times the funding would be appropriate. As for the women getting so much, I grant you that the senior team gets a lot more than the men, but at all other levels most of the women pay to play. Futures has taken over the junior national programs so to be on one of the teams you have to pay for every tryout, and every camp, as well as the travel expenses. In some cases just to be considered for a jr national team you have to pay $1500 to be in futures and b camp, a camp etc.

The big thing you are missing is that most girls and women want boys and men to play, you made a huge generalization when characterizing womens field hockey. I happen to know a few girls who would say they gave you a run for your money on the field. After all did you win the state championship every year with such a macho attitude. Or was it the fault of the female members of the team. I hope you get my point, until you and your game matures a lot, pide down. You are a mid level novice at best with a lot to learn so shut up and play. Until you can back up everything you say don't spout off becasue you are certainly not helping advance your cause. Without women on your side supporting you there is no chance to ever grow mens field hockey in the USA. I have seen you play and your immaturity comes through on the field and certainly comes through in your post. In about five years you might be a top level (USA) player, but you have a long way to go. As far as all other women sports your argument is hollow without any funding for development, and very little marketing money both the WNBA and WUSA have both done fairly well. Most new mens leagues fail as well. Do you remember the ABA, or how about the WHL, the XFL, and the USFL, just to name a few. All of these new leagues failed miserably with men so please don't judge womens sports because of the inabilty to create a successful league. Field hockey for men and women, has something in common. NO ONE WILL WATCH EITHER GENDER. Even in Holland they have dificulty getting ratings. So if you think the women are holding you down, think again it is the antiquated game you chose to play. It has about 20 years of catch up to play in order for any mainstream person to accept it as a real sport. So spout off all you want about your problems but the bottom line is both men and women have to want the others to succeed if this sport will have any future.
PS: Please attend some classes at that community college in Moorpark hopefully they can help you become more articulate.
Zakk
12-18-2003  10:36 pm
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One more troubled youth
I, too, wore the skirt just like my friends Chris and Nate both did. I picked the sport up at age 6 while I was living in Kenya, then when I moved to the US I kept right on playing. I absolutely support the MIAA in making a Boy's Varsity league, it might actually benefit the male gender, something I know truly upsets them. I also play with the Boston Minutemen and am an NAPL Rookie, as well as a member of the 2003 Men's U-16 National team, (by the way if anyone knows when the trials for the U21 team are give me a heads up). All I have to say to every guy out there dealing with the skirt is, stick with it and dig in, your love for the sport can overcome any adversity, plus the experience will make for a great college essay like the one that recently helped a close friend of mine get into Yale. By the way, the USFHA needs some damn money so it can send its men's teams on more than one friggin' tour per year, so get out those wallets and cough up. Dig in.
Nate Coolidge
12-19-2003  4:12 pm
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I thik you misunderstood me
Mr. Reality. Obviously there are more women than men that play. Obviously the funding isn't going to be equal. All I am saying is what I think. I am not sayign that women suck at hockey, because they don't. I want the mens teams to do better, but that doesn't mean that I want the womens teams to do any worse. I want both teams to be able to go to world cup or place in a respectable tournament. I just think that if men played hockey in the states, with somewhat decent numbers, then they would get more attention by fans than women. I don't want women to fail at eevrything like you are making it sound. I'm not being sexist at all either. I just notice that more attention is given by a person to a male sport. I know it sounded bad what I said. But its jsut something that goes unsaid. Its like saying that black people are better at basketball. Does that make me racist? No. It just is an observation.
You went into my years playing in high school. Wow. Wht a different game. As i stated above, I never said women suck at hoockey, and that women don't give a challenge. There were many talented girls playing, and I always ave evvery one of them credit. I still do. I don't know where come off thinking that I thought high school was a joke when I was in it. Did I win the state championship every year with such a macho attitude? No. Actually, I never won a championship... nor did my team. I never said that I think I'm the best player in the world. I truly don't think I am a good player at all. I have a lot to learn. If you ask the guys on my team, they would probably say that I will be the first to admit that I suck. I can't even collect my thoughts right now for this paragraph. You responded to me saying that I think mens sports aer more entertaining than women's sports. Somehow, that made me think i am the best player, and that i think women suck at life? I'm not wasting any more time. For some reason, I think that I shouldn't call you Mr. Reality, but Mrs. Miss, or Ms.
Nate Coolidge
12-20-2003  11:57 am
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Mrs, Miss, Ms Reality
If you are going to single me out and bash me, you shouldn't hide behind a fake name. You should at least stand behind what you say and not be scared to write a post and let people know who its from. are you afraid what people will think of you? At least there is a name behind my posts. I know not everyone will like what i said. It was very edgy, but I'm not afraid to let people know what i think.
Surfer Dude
12-20-2003  12:48 pm
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U21 trial date
Hey Zack, the U21 trials are going to be held in moorpark from January 16-19 (Monday is Martin Luther King Day).
Wolf man
12-20-2003  4:45 pm
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I think the system that is set up in North America is rediculous. At least in Vancouver we have a spring league for high-school boys and it usually fields between 5-6 teams at the U-18 level and then more teams as the age group gets younger. I think it is a complete travesty that only two universities in all of North America (UBC, UVIC) have men's varsity hockey. This is proud thing to say, UBC is the best university for field hockey (in regards to both genders) in all of North America. The women are national champions, and I am willing to bet that they would give Wake Forest a run for their money, most likely beating them. The men's team has a number of players involved with the Sr. national team program. Why is this not the norm for other universities? Universities that have artificial turfs have no reason to not have a men's team. They already have the facilities!!!
pam am dr
12-21-2003  11:11 am
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re: nate/mr reality
I support what Nate has said, and its great that he has the guts to call a spade a spade. Mr. reality, if you want to hide behind your fake name and be nasty to someone who has provided his real name, that’s fine, but you look more like you are the one who is in need of some critical thinking skills, maybe you ought to go back to high school.
What Nate has said is true and we guys all know it, including yourself - not sure what your gender is even though you call yourself "Mr.". My guess is that you are either a guy who is in the thick with the USFHA (which by the way still has let to let its electorate know how the results of the recent election went), or you have a daughter trying to make the US women's team. Whatever your gender, or whomever cares, it is very apparent that you have some self-motivating interest at heart.
Concerning your critical thinking skills and you using professional teams to make comparisons - do you not realize that the NBA, NFL, MLB and MLS are men's professional teams? Have they failed? Not when I last looked. I have seen that the WUSA is folding and the WNBA might follow soon after. My point? Seems that the viewer ship in this country wants to watch MEN'S sports, and that includes women who are a majority in this country and in the world.
So, you go put that in your pipe, and remove whatever nonsense you were smoking before. Also, don't forget to have your critical thinking skills assessed and then upgraded as necessary.
Non US player !
12-21-2003  11:21 am
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Mr Mrs Miss Ms Reality
It is not the game that is antiquated ! it is the americans that play coach and run the game in your country !

There is a big big difference !

Do you seriously want the game of hockey to have top named players who have no education ? A rap sheet as long as your arm ? Drink drugs and psychological problems ? A history of adultery ?

Hmm good old american super sports I look forward to it ...Not !
Mehoff Jack
12-21-2003  3:15 pm
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This is not a comment but rather a request. PAN AM DR I do concur with your statement about the reality issue that has arisen and was curious as whom has made such a valiant effort to defend NATE in his statements.
what is field hockey????
12-21-2003  3:28 pm
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Are you those crazy people who run around with candycanes hitting each other in the shins?????????
pam am dr
12-21-2003  10:24 pm
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re: mehoff jack
to be honest, i have no idea who nate is, nor have i ever met him....as far as i know. however, i share his sentiment about the usfha - strongly.
i am not even sure that he needs to be defended by anyone either, least of all by me. just didnt like the fact the mr reality wanted to be nasty to someone who has the OO to put his name to his writing especially when he has so much to lose - that is by getting dropped from the men's program.
not sure who you are, or why you are interested, but let me know anyway. i hope you are one of the good guys out there.
have a good one!
Mom of boy fh player and proud
12-22-2003  5:52 pm
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nate, chris, david and any other boy that has played hockey on a team for girls deserves much credit for their perserverance. they should be commeneded for acheiving their goals - at the diffrent levels. i have had the honor to watch these boys play and they play with passion and commitment. they play from the heart. i am sure other boys have played, but for different reasons-and are they still playing? if these boys had the same opportunity to play - like the girls-do you think they would have wanted to play on a girls team? until the boys have the same opportunity as the girls-then the boys need a team to play on. the door swings both ways - for both genders
Mr. Reality
12-23-2003  7:39 am
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Just to add one final comment to this thread. First off, hats off to any guy who plays under the harsh conditions that currently exist at the youth level.

Beyond that my post re: Nate was not to attack his courage but to point out to him and anyone else who might want to take a lesson that spouting off about women holding you down etc will NEVER help you achieve what you want. Reckless noise and chatter will only get you more enemies. What you all need to do is stay focused on building what little you have on your own without the USFHA. If you do that then the USFHA has no control over you. Why does mens FH rely on the USFHA. If everyone who complained about the problem would do something about it then the future boys would have something to play for. Take Moorpark for example. Do you think it matters what the USFHA does. Not really, they will continue to exist even without a dime of USFHA money. Why can't all fo the talkers on the east coast get together and build a pitch and create a club team around it. Run it like a business and grow boys field hockey. I bet if someone who lived in the Va Beach area wanted to they could pressure the USFHA and the city of Va Beach to get more time for boys on the USFHA fields. The point in all of this is when you are young and arogant you lose site of the big picture. You should not be bitter but thankful that you could play. There are still many states that boys can't play. You should also be thankful that so many girls play field hockey here, if it wasn't for that there would be no sport of field hockey in the USA. Pure numbers at thispoint is the key the gender of the player is irrellevant. So what if a few ignorant HS parents are affraid of boys ignore them and play for a club. HS only ammounts to about 60 games for your career, a meaningless portion of your life experience really.

As for not putting my name on these posts, courage is wonderfull but ignorance will get you killed. If you demand that people use real names than much of what people are trying to accomplish within this corrupt system would never get done. The group that feels threatened is a vengeful bunch.

Good luck boys, play and grow as people so that some day you can use your resources to help the next generation.
Cintas
12-23-2003  11:03 am
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Mr. Reality
Hmmm, you said, "spouting off about women holding you down will never help you achieve what you want." It seems that women have been spouting off about men holding them down for quite some time (particularly when it comes to sports) and that this has been a rallying cry for a movement which resulted in programs like title 9 being created. A desire for equality in general on the part of women in athletics is a legitimate goal, but in field hockey in this country there is no gender equality for men. Men do not have the same opportunity to participate. While Nate may be somewhat intemperate in his comments he is reacting to the fact that he is a minority and does not have the same opportunities as female field hockey players. This is a frustrating experience. Talking about the experience in a public forum where you can enter into debate about the topic may, in fact, be part of a process that helps to create awareness. It might even spark some people to act. So maybe, instead of taking you advice to keep your mouth shut and realize nothing will ever change, some people might have different ideas about how to move forward.
pam am dr
12-24-2003  1:03 am
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re: cintas
great comment cintas, well said!
chris
01-06-2004  8:58 pm
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mens hockey opportunities
I am interested in finding out about teams and leagues that i can try out for in the upcoming summer. I have heard of the women's summer leagues, but are there any for men to try-out for?
EnglishMan
01-08-2004  6:29 pm
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Re:Men Hockey chance
Come to Europe to all guys and girls as well. You will definitely enjoy hockey a lot here.It's an equal game. As a start, why not do 6 months out to England universities as part of your university courses. I have seen many Americans doing 6-month out of their courses here. London has got so many hockey clubs that you can choose.
snah from california
01-21-2004  10:57 pm
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I think girls look hotter in short skirts. Well.....some of them do. Then agian, this is field hockey we are talking about, right? Maybe the SoCal hotties, or the Dutch then. Anyway, i'm glad i don't have to see Nate in a skirt.......not that there is anything wrong with that.
Reem Dogg
01-25-2004  10:35 pm
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Antiquated Sport?
In response to Mr. Reality's posting 18th of Dec 2003. Can someone please tell me what changes need to be made to hockey to bring it into 2004 right now so I can get to work on it!

Hockey is played all over the world by men and women on grass and artificial surfaces.

It has a great club tradition.

It doesn't give in to the hype machine.

The equipment embraces modern technology using materials like carbon fibre, and kevlar.

The off-side rule has been abolished to encourage goal scoring and an open exciting game.

It incorporates set plays and also allows for open free-flowing action.

How many sports can claim all of these attributes? Not many – if any.

What am I missing? Who are these "mainstream" people (sportwatchers) anyway? Do they sit infront of ESPN and take whatever crap is forced down their throats, or are they people at the clubs, participating, playing and and enjoying one of the most MODERN and skillfull games on the planet?

Please, someone enlighten me!!
FAN
01-27-2004  1:52 pm
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I appreciate all we have. It would be nice to have a little more.

Nate...chill out buddy. You are getting nowhere. You have a big tag you are representing. Solve problems, don't create new ones. May the light of elendil guide you thru dark places.

GO USA!!!!!
Samantha
02-01-2004  6:55 pm
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My name is Sam im 17 and I've been playing field hockey since i was about 6. I play for the New England All Stars team and for Barnstable High School on Cape Cod MA. I grew up with 2 brothers and 5 sisters and we all had our own sports but my older brother always loved field hockey and thats where i found my love for the sport. i know the feeling, because of my brother, of being excluded from playing a sport you love because of your gender(now my brother is playing in Scotland and is ranked in the 10 ten top players from the US). Being a captain of the barnstable varsity field hockey team i wanted to change that and now we have 2 boys playing on the team Kyle and Matt you guys rock! theses two boys are an amazing part of our team and no matter how much ridiculing they go through they will stick to the sport because they love it. Now we can play against school like Sandwich HS who have had boys playing for years and be proud to be a diverse team like them.
away the hill!!!!
02-19-2004  8:13 am
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the thing that annoys me about these american teams (now i no this maybe silly but here me out) all this team names like the so and so allstars wrong u aint allstars because you would rather play american football and basketball. samantha i would love to find out this american name as i play in scotland. also your indoor hockey national team is coached by my coach mr billy mcpherson, even with his expertise you lot didnt come up to scratch. why dont you moan to your council and get some funding. now boys that are playing in girls team maybe its just me but you boys have got it all bit of the rough and tumble any time you want showering wi the team after a good victory. cmon boys finger out and get in there.....
Parent of Sandwich HS Boy FH player
02-29-2004  1:29 pm
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Boys and Field Hockey
I am also an educator at Sandwich High School. All schools have mission statements that address diversity. Some schools choose to include it in their mission statements and not teach/practice it. And very few do stand behind their mission statements 100% - as did SHS.
Not only do they follow it between the regular school hours, they continue with their athletic programs. SHS supports boy fh players beyong their duty. They take it personal. The abuse the boys received at FH games was basically harassment and abusive, especially from parents! Yet, people figured they could bear it- as they were boys. The SHS community banded together to support the boys!
SHS needs recognition for supporting their male students and their mission ststement!
I was at a basketball game at Harwich HS and overheard a fh referee talk with another ref how boys would never make it in fh. My response to that was a chuckle! Guess what........she is so wrong!!
To this day, I am proud of my son and the support of SHS, and SHS is proud of their boy field hockey player!!!
Ms V
03-01-2004  1:28 am
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Appalled!
Once again I am appalled by the lack of fair play given to people in the US. I am a US citizen, but have lived most of my life in Australia. I hold a Masters Degree in Business focusing on Sports Management, have been involved as a coach/educator/admin etc for hockey in this country and am CEO of a sports organisation in Aust. I CANNOT BELIEVE this sort of thing continues to go on in the US!

Yes, sport generally has male and female traditional sports, and yes it is male dominated. Female sports stars have been struggling with this issue for years, as the US/ Aust and most other countries phsycological make up says sport = masculine. To take a traditional female sport in the US such as FH and inflict such base, and common ideas as to dress a boy having to play in a skirt is good for no one. This would never happen in Australia. I feel sorry for anyone involved in trying to give their children a diverse and open education (inclusive of their sports choices). This DOES go right to the TOP. USAFH should be tackling this issue with pro active involvement! It is called PR!! Now I know that USAFH are going through other issues, but this is nuts and shows how there is such a lack of understanding of grass roots, and lack of management. Wake up and smell the grass (roots) flitering away...

Just as a side note. It saddens me that there is this sort of 'US and THEM' attitude in the US. I have always been proud to be American, yet when I hear this... whow. Life is about acceptance of others who are different. Learn and grow from their differences and you'll find they're more similar to you than they are different. Be they male, female, black, white, otherwise, old, young, gay, straight, jewish, catholic, disabled, or disadvantaged. Damn - give EVERYONE a go. Give the boys a go at this great game without making them look shear stupid! It is only the rules governing the game that says what they should wear.

Shame on those that continue this farce! And good on those that fight for their rights!
Sloth
03-04-2004  2:04 pm
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The Lucky Country
When I read about things such as this I'm saddened as I have never had a problem playing whatever sport I wished and as a kid was exposed to any and everything going around.
I am indeed lucky to be living in such a diverse and mostly tolerant society...(yes I am an Aussie and a hockey player)

Like most things that are good it will prevail with the right people behind it pushing the barrow...

One question doesn't USFHA stand for United States Field Hockey Association ??? I don't see anywhere that it is exclusively for women or men, surely the responsibility for hockey growth in the US lies there.

In Australia hockey tends to be a family sport thus when dad or mum plays there is higher likelyhood that sons & daughters will play thus ensuring the growth of the sport. If 1 gender has no clear path then ultimately it is to the detrimate of both genders..surely that is obvious.

Just my piece
Frank
03-20-2004  5:16 pm
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Skirts
I strongly believe that an athlete on a team should have to wear the same uniform as his/her teammmates. It shows unity and if a guy wishes to play on a ladies team and the team uniform requires the athlete to wear a skirt then he/she should not only wear the skirt but he/she should want to wear the skirt to show his/her commitment and loyalty to the team.
Ms V
03-21-2004  12:44 am
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Good one Frank!

Some corporations have uniforms too, and employees have to wear them as part of the job, although I don't see men walking around in skirts and bras. For gods sakes, I don't think I have heard something so narrow minded from an adult in a long time. Our society accepts some clothes as same sex, inter gender such as shorts, jeans, pants, shirts, polo shirts etc, but has skirts as a female only attire. This causes embarsement and makes a young man feel akward when they are told they have to wear womens clothing.

Frank I can understand the team building aspect - sure pride in your uniform, but perhaps the uniform does not fit the team.
Aust (and the US) have a proud life saving tradition - it was originally a male domain. When females began their involvment, we did not force them to wear male swimmers did we. Did we force male synchro swimmers to wear female costumes - no. Do we make the men in Australia who play Netball (similar to basketball and a female dominated sport) wear skirts NO I TELL you, they wear shorts!

Why on earth would you humiliate your child by making him wear a skirt. Seriously consider this. I guess being an adult you may have more guts, but I know the answer of many men if I asked them - what if YOU Frank were told that to play a sport YOU had to wear a skirt, in front of your family and friends, work mates and boss. You would not feel very good would you.

MEN do not wear skirts when they play hockey and neither should boys. It is question of havig pride in yourself and your other team mates wearing 'the same colours' yes, but not about one person being humiliated for wearing something everyone else in greater society knows is for girls only. Please do not force this narrow mindedness on any more poor boys!
Ms V
03-21-2004  8:48 pm
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Norrow minded
I believe you are the narrowminded lady here. There was a time when women were not allowed to wear pants. What is so wrong with a guy in a skirt/kilt? I know many women who think it is attractive. There are several new stores opening for men to be able to buy skirts for themselves too such as Midas. Skirts are not just for girls.

As far as team unity, yes the team should wear the same colors and styles as their teammates. If a girl were to play football they would give her the same uniform as a man and not change her uniform into a skirt or dress for that matter. It is a sport dominated by men. So why should a female dominated sport have to change its attire to accomadate a man? It has to do with team unity, pride and acceptance. I am sure the girls also respect the guy more for wearing t he skirt instead of forcing them to change their uniforms of which they have been accustomed too. Now if it were and all guy team I doubt skirts would be worn. Its the team concept here not narrow mindedness as you put it.
The Telescope
03-23-2004  8:48 am
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Forget The Kilts
Somehow soccer, baseball, lacrosse, cycling, tennis, swimming, ice hockey, roller hockey and other sports have managed to see that
school related sports is only one avenue. Grassroots sports have no gender rules. Club sports have no gender rules.

So long a field hockey depends upon education systems and athletic boards for the mainstay of it's development, the sport will continue to lose ground to all other, less constrained sports. The grassroots, club avenue has worked amazingly well for women's ice hockey and soccer.

Men's field hockey can exist any place you are. Just teach the game to someone!
Ms V
03-25-2004  2:19 pm
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OK, I'll take a step back and try it from another angle. MMM men can wear, men can wear skirts...

Do they really want to? ...no in most cases.

Do they feel uncomfortable? ... yes in most cases.

Are they picked on by other kids? ... yes in most cases.

Are they degraded by it and that is why we are having this conversation? ... that is what I thought.

I am prepared for anyone to wear a skirt in their own time, pants in their own time, but I wouldn't force things upon others.

As for the sport being female dominated - you would have to ask the European Countries their ideas on this, as hockey is a major sport for men in many countries.

We must remember that this discussion began with young boys feeling degraded by others for having to wear a skirt. Do young girls get degraded by others for wearing a skirt when playing soccer, hockey, basketball etc. No. We must ask ourselves why - because shorts are an acceptable attire for both males and females, boys and girls. Skirts - well we accpet them as female dress from corporate life to cocktail gowns. Kilts, well these are a traditionalform of dress for the Scotish, a proud tradition, that few other countries have adopted.

One of the reasons teams have uniforms is to protect the players from wear and tear, injury etc. Baseball and softball players have relatively the same uniform these days as they perform similar tasks in their sport. Soccer and basketball have the same uniforms for men and women - same tasks. Now some of these sports may have started out with skirts for girls as this was a traditional dress for women, however they never made men wear skirts to play them. I do not understand when this sport that is played by men who wear shorts, should force the embarssement of putting a buy into a skirt. I cannot understand who would put their child throught the humiliation.

I ask again - how would YOU feel? Would YOU subjest your child to taunts, I would hope not. I seriously considered my view as being narrow minded, but when it came down to the feelings of a child - wearing something that is traditionally female (AND NOT WORN BY OTHER BOYS IN OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD) I decided it was not about pride of uniform at all. Pride comes form a different place - it comes from the heart and teh bonds between the kids. This is priceless.
Frank
03-25-2004  3:03 pm
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Point well taken.
I agree completely with you on all points. There is one thing though, rules are rules and rules are made to be broken or changed and until that happens in this sport, boys will have to wear the skirt if they choose to play. If I had the opportunity to play the game when I was t heir age I would have dealt with the minor issue of weasring a skirt. Kids are gonna pick on each other no matter what, even if the guys didnt have to wear the skirt they would be ridiculed just for playing on a girls team as several articles have mentioned it, from not only their peers but from the oppossing schools fans, coaches, and parents. I think that is just wrong. With or without the skirt the boy is going to go through humiliation. Considering they want it so bad and all though I admire the boys for doing what they do. It was their decision to play and to play by the rules, which in this case forces the players to wear the skirt wether it is a guy or girl. Honestly going back to your earlier point, isnt it time for a change in the unifrom rules? Honestly, how many girls really do want to play in skirt themselves?
Ms V
03-25-2004  3:32 pm
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Yes. It is certainly wrong for coaches and parents to be placing this upon the children. There should be a code of conduct, and these staff members volunteer or not, should be reprimanded. I can only shake my head.

As for the change in uniform, yes, I can also se this as a possibility. Firstly though, I am not sure that the wearing of skirts is a rule. It is certainly not a rule of hockey under the FIH. It is not a rule under the game of hockey, and the only people that impose further rules are associations that run the sport. This usually is your local association, or possibly the inter school association. I would look at firstly finding out who imposes it. School or association. Then I would look at lobbying a change. For what reason do they have the rule, for what reason can they NOT change it. Again, collect valid information and present it to them. Soccer is a great example. Mens hockey around teh world is another good example.

As for changing the uniforms on a national level, this is another thing. You have much larger issues at stake. Boby image verses marketability. The Aussie team have worn body suits - developed from so many players wearing bike shorts under their skirts to protect their upper legs when they slide on turf. However there was great debate not just in Aust but internationally (and still is to an extent) as to weather or not Hockey Aust fell into the trap of marketing their sport as 'sexy', because don't we now get to see more of the figures of the players. Some players were uncomfortable as they had different body shapes then others, and this is a societal issue that we will be working out for years to come. Compromises were made and national in Aust you will see uniforms with body suits and skirts.

Still you aks, why not shorts? There are those that ask why American Basketballers do not wear body suits. Our football codes have adopted variations. Well, again body image comes into play. Basketball, females - dominated by African Americans (I hope I have used the up to date correct terminology - no offense intended), can you see these women wearing body suits. No.
But this does not mean one does not try.

If it is YOU who are looking to change the rules, please contact Stanford Hockey Club, San Francisco region. A few ex US players still there, lots of Aussies and NZ. They ALL wear shorts men and women. See how they tackle the issue as they help train kids teams. See how they can help.

If you are from one of these clubs please post a contact email to help!!
Peter Munsing
04-10-2004  2:40 pm
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Skirt a symptom in more ways than one.But now boys may be banned
OK, first the big news--as PIAA can't ban boys, they have encouraged the troglodytes in the sport to get school boards to ban them. Even in counties such as ours, where boys have played for about seven years with no injuries they use the bogus arguement that boys create a risk.
Irongically, the biggest contingent of advocates are women athletic directors, who would not have their jobs as AD in the old days when positions, like sports, were divided into "girls" and "boys" sports.

Frank, it's people like you that allow this to happen--guys with no sense of gender solidarity who would rather see some 7th grader humiliated than break a rule. Nicegoing, "guy." If there was a rule that said you had to hand out yellow stars I bet you'd be handing them out because "rules are rules."
Lets face it no one is asking girls to stop wearing the hockey "kilt" but to let boys wear a short in the tartan of their team. Clearly the only reason to have the boys have to crossdress is to humiliate them--and if it doesnt keep them away it will scare off those not willing to take the stuff they have to deal with. I've had seniors come up to me and say "I think it's so cool what your son is doing--I always wanted to try field hockey--it looked like such a cool game but I didn't have the balls to put up with what he has to deal with."
Look Frank,did you have the moral courage to do what these kids did at any time in your life, to take on a burden, to be a pioneer? Just for that they deserve everyone's praise not their okpporobrium.
Oh, and by the way, Mr. "rules are rules" the skirt thing is not a rule. PIAA says it's an interpretation of the national rule which says "similarly attired." Not identically attired. ALso, I called up National and found out its not their interpretation, its not USFHA's interpretation, its the interpretation of a bunch of sick minded biggots
that would rather humiliate kids who love a sport to put up with this than deal with their own turf fears.
Let's face it that's what this is--whenever normally rational people go bananas and do something bizzarelike making kids crossdress, it's because of turf--whether it's a girl called Shannon Faulkner going to the Citadel or the first woman policeman or firefighter or soldier,
otherwise stand up guys become immature hyenas. So, it seems, sadly do some women.
A writer asked what USFHA is doing? Well, I asked the last president
and the present president to use their bully pulpits to address this passive aggressive behavior, which has the effect of making the sport
look ridiculous and shaming kids, which is never right, rule or no.

Its as if the sport took it's Billy Elliotts and said "right, playing a "girls" sport hasn't scared you off? Well, let's put you in a pink tutu--even if it doesn't scare you away, it will make you pay and any other nasty little boy that wants to try will be scared of being viewed as a nancy."

Wow, what a great way to grow a sport. You'd think we were so successful we could afford to argue over spoils. Instead, sadly, like many at the bottom of a systemic rung, we argue and belittle some rather than trying to help all.

Look, even the best clubs on the east coast only have two day a week practices. Unfortunately, junior high and high school sports are the only way kids will be able to practice.

Wouldnt it be great if these kids who so love this %*@#*!!+ sport, who fight for it, litterally, found that the sport loved them back even half as much?

A little moral leadership, saying "shaming kids is wrong, banning them is no solution" would be great. If you think so please write the USFHA before boys are banned off of the East Coast and our national team becomes a glorified California Club.
Think of all the places where there is no school field hockey at all, where there areno clubs. Can we really afford to be shaming tomorrow's players, to scare away potential players, and to ban thefew that run the sport's gantlet?
This costs no money, only the loss of bigotry.
Be noble, for these boys have shown the way--they have no secondary gain, but play only for the love of the sport. Consider, that they have little team camraderie, no support from their peers, no plaudits from the parents--usually the opposite--no scholarships, few club or other opportunities (many indoor facilities leagues will not let boys play adults; most USFHA events for U-21 players do not admit coed players, so most elite indoor season youthtravel teams don't take boys). The bosy play only for the love of the sport. As it's purest advocates must they be banned after being shamed?
Ms V
04-11-2004  9:01 pm
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Peter Munsing...

Thankyou! I have tried not to be too harsh, yet find it hard because emotionally this is frustrationg, academically it is sheer stupidity!

I have said it before and you have reiteratted it - the wearing of skirts is NOT an FIN or USFHA etc or anywhere rule, and is imposed by lower bodies/assoc.

I would like to drag this topic a bit further into the academic world... exactly what ages are the boys you are talking about? Do they play against thier own age groups with women/girls? Who exactly is imposing these 'dress standards' upon the boys? Once these questions have been sorted I hope to send readers in right direction if possible.

I dare to say it.. Frank, I agree with Peter. Rules are rules ?!?!? You are kidding me. Challange the idea of rules, challenge thoughts, structures, academically, with information on our sides, but don't; don't ever fall into the trap of doing somehing because someone told you they were the rules. Consider thoughts on politics, religion, culture, bigotry, racisim... Rules are rules and we must follow them. One must break out of this train of thought and do what is right for the individual and for the great of the population.

These rules stand for what reason I ask. What reason but to force 'rules' upon another...
Peter Munsing
04-12-2004  12:52 pm
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Dear Ms. V--
Ms. V--The boys I am talking about are 11 to whatever age they are when they graduate. In other words, 7th to 12th grades in our area is when schools play field hockey. Sko the biggest problem is that youare crossdressing boys in 7th grade.
Actually, in 8th grade many boys get exposed to field hockey as part of a physical ed class "rotation" through the sports offered in high school. Many like field hockey but have been brainwashed to believethat its a girls sport. Or, they believe that even at the olympic level boys have to wear skirts!
They play against girls in their ability level--they have to try out for the team. Then they play junior high school varsity or j.v., then get moved up to senior high j.v. or varsity. As with any minorities, they have to be quite good to get a spot. Thus while the canard is that they take the place of a "good" girl (it's always a "good" person who is displaced by a minority, as in 'women doctors take places of good family men(sic)'). Actually, if the girl was good the boy wouldn't have the spot. (The other canard as with other bigotry is that the place that is earned by the minority is really "owned" by someone of the majority as in "she took his place on the list to make captain--" like the position is owned by some divine right).
So, once in high school these boys play girls at their ability level. Actually, assuming that some of the girsl are serious about aspiring to college varsity, you'd think they'd be glad of the possible upgrade in competion a good young male player may represent. But the gender bigots would rather see boys banned than have girls exposed to better competition--it's more important to be gender cleansed than a better player, I suppose.
Outside of school the boys can play with clubs as money (for transportation and tournament fees and expenses makes available--e.g., at$35-65 per player per club tournament, club play is not an option for economic reasons for players from poor famillies).
Also, it should be noted that not every club in the US has a youth development program--a few do but many do not.
My son was fortunate in finding his way to the Washington DC Mavericks who gave him tournament options and also with the USA Eagles of NJ. But if I didn't have a flexible schedule or the spare money to afford tournaments, or if my son had to workas many youths do, he wouldn't have been able to play at the club level.
At the club level he has palyed against girls, women, men, and now primarily plays against men or coed adult scrimmage gourps. However, around his home town he cant get into the indoor leagues because the adult leages won't accept players under 18 or 21 (he's 16) and the youth indoor leagues won't take boys on the elite teams as they can't play at the USFHA indoors, AAU, or other events elite youth squads are aiming for.
So it is that I said that especially in small town areas high wchool hockey is the only way boys can get the 4-6day-a-week sticktime needed to develop stick skills in the ages 10-18.
Even if they lived in a large metropolitan area, if the club wasn't near them they could be taking 1 1/2 hours EACH WAY to get to a club. That's not doable for any serious student.
But all this may not matter--if boys are banned, school by school --and to encourage this, the schools that lead the banning say they won't play schools that allow boys --just as schools used to refuse to play schools with racially integrated teams.
I fear that USFHA, which so far has refused to take a position on the skirt issue, will cynically wait until the boys are all banned from high school play, and then take a position, which will not be opposed because there will be no more boys on the field.
The amazing thing is that thereare so very few boys that inspire all this genderbashing effort--there are perhaps 40 to 70 boys that play highschoo field hockey IN THE ENTIRE EAST COAST, from Maine to Florida!
These boys must really have some strong power to inspire all this negative energy to be directed against them!
It's too bad some of this energy can't be redirected to overcome the many real challenges the sport faces. That would be real leadership.
So give it a try Ms.V and similarly inclined readers--excercise leadership for the positive. Fight gender bigotry; you'll do some good, you'll feel good (if frustrated at times), and you'll have the self respect to know that you're on the side of the banned rather than the banners, the side of Mandela rather than the side of Voerster, the side of Shannon Faulkner and not on theside of morally cretinous bullies and youth shamers.
This needs to be done at private schools as well, for most private school leagues won't allow boys on the field at all, even the Philadelphia area Friends schools athletic association! Some witness for equality!
Ms V
04-13-2004  2:13 pm
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Whew! I wholehaeartedly agree with you Peter. I believe in your cause, I deplore the senlessness of the bigotry, and shake my head at the naivity of those enforcing these 'dress codes'.

My query on the ages of the boys was specifically to see what basis they may be rejected form playing. There are a number of bodies that have researched this area. Essentially what a number of them have found is that for a large majority of sports, they find that up until the age of 13, boys and girls have similar attributes physically (ie stregth). For this reason they have no issue with mixed sports of any type up until this age. However it is from this age on, and the type of sport being played that they like to have non mixed. Saying this though - I have played as an adult against men and have no problem with it. Sorry to throw thi into the fray... but it is a necessary part of the discussion.

What is not is as you put it Peter - crossdressing. NOT ON!
Spicoli
04-14-2004  2:56 am
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I believe the National Field Hockey Coaches Association has a study that shows mixed teams do not result in more injuries. The NFHCA supports boys playing on girls' teams if no boys teams are available. I don't mean to speak on their behalf, but I'm sure that's what I've been told.
Peter Munsing
04-14-2004  7:05 am
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Skill vs strength
I'm sure at the elite level there may indeed be male/female differences. However, the reality is that the few boys that play find that without skill they are routinely beaten by skilled girls. The boys that play are in effect self selected for determination and focus--when they play they give it 120% usually, and this may also make them look better. However I have seen equally determined girls teams get around them, including my son, so at the high school level I'm not sure the generalization shakes out as applied specifically to field hockey.
I have been told by an FIH umpire that studies also show that studies show that young women women are still physically and mentally ahead of boys at the ages involved (10-18). There are of course exceptions.
I also understand that at those ages young women still possess the ability to build muscle at an equal to or greater ease than boys. Whether because of cultural biases they do so is a different matter (i.e., some young women may avoid certain strength training because of fear of violating bogus perceived cultural norms).
However I'd be interested in seeing the NFHCA study--do you know where we can get a copy and the title?
And don't forget to write USFHA and copy the board!
Ms V
04-16-2004  6:26 pm
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Yes,
I also would be interested in getting a copy of this report. Sounds good. I do not mean to put a dampner on the optimism of our thoughts, only to shed light on what research has been done in Aust. Aust have an excellent sports program at both the national (see our world champs) as well as research. Our research shows that while young men and women often have the same ability to strengthen themselves, boys on a majority have it happen naturally. (Being an ex athlete, I can guarentee you I never looked bulked, just well defined due to a low fat %, but my friends and I during my teens and early 20's held much delight in arm wrestling boys for beer/money/ or just pride as I beat most of them. And my nickname is chicken legs! deceptive and powerful). The issue pointed out is that on average, males carry more weight, power and strength and the recommendation for many many sports is that 13 is the upper age of mixed sport until adulthold. So whilst hockey is a non contact sport, people DO push their weight around.

Further though...I can see where Peter means elite however. As long as it is relatively non contact sport, and there is a check on the physical side of things, then there may be great leeway for these activities.

What brings it to home is that these boys have no where else to play as the sport is a minority sport in the US. Dam - even I